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This is a very nice Finkel bow. It plays extremely well but has an annoying crack, so solid that my bow guy was initially  unsure it was a crack. It’s hard to see in the photographs but it does not go all the way through, and I’m wondering if there is any need to do any kind of repair on it? 
It is almost at the midpoint of the stick so almost where the wood is the thickest.

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Not much that you can do with it. I have a very Hi-Tech friend who wraps these with a carbon fiber filament. The only traditional thing that could be done is to wrap it with thread and saturate that with glue. 

You probably shouldn't do anything to it. Don't ever let anyone attempt to straighten or camber the bow. When it opens up, you retire the bow.

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The bow has already been re-cambered, And Jay said there was no movement of the crack at all, I think it was at that point that he discovered in the first place. Fortunately it is at the thickest part of the stick, in the crack, actually more of a large lift I guess, is as stable as can be.

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If you like to play with the bow and you're not terribly concerned about its appearance, you might consider having a thread wrap put on.  This would lessen the chance of the crack re-opening, and it wouldn't add any significant weight, so the playability of the bow would be unaffected.

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44 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Why would such a relatively modern bow need recambered?

wood does what wood will do. I believe that in Retford's book he suggests that anyone who guarantees the camber of a bow from day to day is foolish.

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3 hours ago, duane88 said:

You probably shouldn't do anything to it. Don't ever let anyone attempt to straighten or camber the bow. When it opens up, you retire the bow.

 

3 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

The bow has already been re-cambered, And Jay said there was no movement of the crack at all, I think it was at that point that he discovered in the first place.

Then you got extremely lucky, that time around! Next time could easily be very different.

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25 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

 

Then you got extremely lucky, that time around! Next time could easily be very different.

I could be remembering incorrectly, I visited him today and asked him if he had straightened the bow, and he said he did not remember, so he might not have.

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Is there any possibility that someone may have already put a pin down the center of the stick in that area? There appears to be a little difference in the finish in that area.

As for recambering, I was warned that it can go very wrong, very fast, and that any clients wanting their bow recambered need to be warned of that possibility.

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10 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

Is there any possibility that someone may have already put a pin down the center of the stick in that area? There appears to be a little difference in the finish in that area.

It looks like a repaired crack or break to me.

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14 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

As for recambering, I was warned that it can go very wrong, very fast, and that any clients wanting their bow recambered need to be warned of that possibility.

I would think the original maker put a lot of thought into the camber, matching it to the particular piece of wood, or the original owners requirements. As an example, perhaps a particular bow required a touch less camber behind the head.
Fast-forward 20 years when the bow has a new home, and some guy is deciding it needs re-cambered because he doesn't like the look of it, despite not having even bothered to play on it.

It seems in some parts, re-cambering is thrown around as a term like its annual maintenance, which is really isn't, or at least shouldn't be (some demanding pros excepted). Who knows what the results are going to be from some have a go hero, only using visual cues. ermm.gif.081e8ea0db463f1e6c0937bf4a67c080.gif

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11 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

I would think the original maker put a lot of thought into the camber, matching it to the particular piece of wood, or the original owners requirements. As an example, perhaps a particular bow required a touch less camber behind the head.
Fast-forward 20 years when the bow has a new home, and some guy is deciding it needs re-cambered because he doesn't like the look of it, despite not having even bothered to play on it.

It seems in some parts, re-cambering is thrown around as a term like its annual maintenance, which is really isn't, or at least shouldn't be (some demanding pros excepted). Who knows what the results are going to be from some have a go hero, only using visual cues. ermm.gif.081e8ea0db463f1e6c0937bf4a67c080.gif

Thank you for that, it is possible I was misinterpreting what I was seeing. Straightening and side to side camber is the curve top-bottom, And my bow guy straightens every bow he rehairs, as necessary. I have always assumed that camber was also something that would need periodic maintenance but it seems I was mistaken, so thank you for the clarification

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Certainly, camber could need adjustment over time, so nothing is set in stone here.
Sideways deflection is quite common, but I don’t see this as re-cambering, at times it can be rectified with a rehair, but it’s better if the stick is straight first. That said, sometimes a slight sideways curve can play really well, providing its curved the right way & not collapsing into the strings ;)

I think there is a big difference between a makers intent, where they had a more intimate involvement with the raw material, and knew what it needed, and someone working on it later.

 As Fiddledoug indicated, it requires a lot of skill and experience for a successful outcome, and many bows have been spoiled by those who are a bit eager to reach for the spirit lamp.
I would only trust camber adjustments to someone very experienced with a proven track record, but even then the results may not be what one hoped for, and no easy way to return the bow to its previous state.

Any bow with wavy distortions, or a twist from frog to head, I’d just avoid like the plague.

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I don't see a lot of broken bows... but with the crackline dramatically cross grain,  are we sure it is a crack... maybe a wear mark of sorts from movement in a case against something? ... or maybe just a flaw in the wood?

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I don't think this is a thundershake because the edge is quite ragged.

It looks to me like the end of a lift or a partial break. If you expand the third photo you can see that the diagonal takes a sharp turn at the top (when viewing) of the crack and then travels along the grain. Probably you would see the same at the other end of the diagonal.

So there's some signifiant trauma, but it's not all directly across the grain, and with adequate gluing the repair could be pretty strong. 

Having said that I don't think the bow is saleable, even if it might be fine for everyday use. I wouldn't use it for a public performance!!

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I'm used to see this kind of breaks or marks when there's a knot in the stick, often visible from one side only, or completely hidden inside. Therefore only one half or less of the diameter is affected, but it can result in a very sudden crack.

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Its odd as knots on the side tend to be slight circular and darker ,whereas this looks the same colour on both sides of the line(apart from in the first photo). I think ,but only my opinion is the the maker has had a lift in the grain when cambering it and glued the lift during the making process.Ive seen this before , but more usually nearer the handle where theres less chance of compromising the strength of the stick.

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1 hour ago, fiddlecollector said:

Its odd as knots on the side tend to be slight circular and darker ,whereas this looks the same colour on both sides of the line(apart from in the first photo)

Yes, exactly the darker area at the right side in the first photo made me think of a knot.;) But I agree that they are usually like half cicles around the center of the knot. So it might have been any flaw in the wood causing a lift or short crack while making the stick and the maker (or shop owner) didn't want to waste it. But that's just as speculative as other assumptions.

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Posted (edited)

Would other photos help? I agree with Martin that’s it’s probably a lift, but 1) it isn’t a break that has been glued 2) it is almost at the THICKEST point of the stick, and 3) the damage seems perpendicular to the typical direction of stress, so it’s unlikely to be stressed enough to break.

and it appears to never have been repaired at all. It’s just there.

and it’s deuced hard to photograph but I’ll sure try if y’all (euch) wish.

it’s a fantastic playing bow. I am enjoying it a lot at the moment.

Edited by PhilipKT
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8 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I agree with Martin that’s it’s probably a lift, but 1) it isn’t a break that has been glued .....

.....and it appears to never have been repaired at all. It’s just there.

I will tend to disagree, based on what little information we have from the photos. The shinier and smoother surface at the anomaly highly suggests prior glue application.

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18 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

 the damage seems perpendicular to the typical direction of stress, so it’s unlikely to be stressed enough to break.

and it appears to never have been repaired at all. It’s just there.

 

1. there is stress in all directions

2. I don't think you can determine this without a UV light - it has definitely been glued back at some point, though as fiddlecollector says, this might ave been done by the maker before finishing the stick

However, I don't believe a Finkel would have got through quality control with a flaw like this, so I would put money on it having been repaired.

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I meant to say, “at the thickest point of the stick” would other photographs help? Should I just ignore it and hope for the best? It certainly doesn’t seem as if it requires any attention at the moment. Does anybody have a UV light they want to send me?

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17 minutes ago, martin swan said:

However, I don't believe a Finkel would have got through quality control with a flaw like this, so I would put money on it having been repaired.

When I was working alongside Johannes Finkel, I witnessed him gluing all sorts of stuff, with the outcomes being largely invisible.

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