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Zdenka Cerny - Greatest Bohemian Cellist


Rue
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Happy March 1! I changed my calendar this morning and the posted image is my March image.

So...I  Googled Zdenka Cerny (or Czerny) 1895-1998 and while the illustration (by Alphonse Mucha) pops up readily, info about the cellist didn't.

Then I came across the following informative blog:

http://proseandpassion.blogspot.com/2018/03/a-cellist-lost.html?m=1

Just an interesting bit of information: Mostly about the human condition. Talented woman escapes family through marriage and ends up prisoner to her husband's controlling personality.

What is different is that the image of a promising musician survives while the cellist never really did. She lived to the ripe age of 102.

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Edited by Rue
Confusing wording...
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1 hour ago, Rue said:

Happy March 1! I changed my calendar this morning and the posted image is my March image.

So...I  Googled Zdenka Cerny (or Czerny) 1895-1998 and while the illustration (by Alphonse Mucha) pops up readily, info about the cellist didn't.

Then I came across the following informative blog:

http://proseandpassion.blogspot.com/2018/03/a-cellist-lost.html?m=1

Just an interesting bit of information: Mostly about the human condition. Talented woman escapes family through marriage and ends up prisoner to her husband's controlling personality.

What is different is that the image of a promising survives while the cellist herself never really did. She lived to the ripe age of 102.

404.jpg

Has the image survived because of Alphonse Mucha?

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Her husband really didn't want her out of the house, much less performing. A quote from the above blog:

A planned performance of the Saint-Saens cello concerto with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Frederick Stock is cancelled. 

 

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

Her husband really didn't want her out of the house, much less performing. A quote from the above blog:

A planned performance of the Saint-Saens cello concerto with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Frederick Stock is cancelled. 

 

Maybe she realized  he and she both new she wasn't really good enough? Isn't that a more plausible explanation?

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17 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Maybe she realized  he and she both new she wasn't really good enough? Isn't that a more plausible explanation?

No.

At that time, better-off women gave, or were forced to give up their careers. Some women did it willingly - since it was socially more acceptable. Others would have pursued a career, but were not allowed to, or could only attempt to do so with no support from their husband and/family whatsoever.

Olus, the comment that the husband wouldn't even let her out of the house to do the shopping (a predominately female labour) suggests he was a control freak.

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Just now, Rue said:

No.

At that time, better-off women gave, or were forced to give up their careers. Some women did it willingly - since it was socially more acceptable. Others would have pursued a career, but were not allowed to, or could only attempt to do so with no support from their husband and/family whatsoever.

Olus, the comment that the husband wouldn't even let her out of the house to do the shopping (a predominately female labour) suggests he was a control freak.

Aren't you putting your own spin on the story though?

Mucha new a thing or two about marketing didn't he?

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From the blog: she travelled/performed prior to her marriage. She wasn't "just" a local woman who could play the cello. She also "hung out" with musicians. 

Quote:

She broke off a previous, secret engagement to violinist Jiri Hruso 

Her non-musician husband also didn't allow her to teach.

But - that need to "do" music must have remained strong, because each of her 3 children (2 boys, 1 girl) played an instrument.

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8 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Aren't you putting your own spin on the story though?

Mucha new a thing or two about marketing didn't he?

Don't think I'm spinning. Those were the times. Man in charge. Woman subservient.

The poster was the result of a long-held promise to Zdenka as a child. Mucha added the words "Greatest Bohemian Cellist" more as a sign of affection/teasing than marketing.

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12 minutes ago, Rue said:

At that time, better-off women gave, or were forced to give up their careers.

Literally the royal treatment.   Women were valued more highly than men, not the other way around.  Men fought the wars, had the dangerous jobs, provided, took all the risks, and in risky times.  Things change -- no more getting in the lifeboats first for you!

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6 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

Literally the royal treatment.   Women were valued more highly than men, not the other way around.  Men fought the wars, had the dangerous jobs, provided, took all the risks, and in risky times.  Things change -- no more getting in the lifeboats first for you!

Beat your wife, no problem!  Use your wife for free labor, absolutely!

And, Bill, the occasional war is very dangerous, but I'm pretty sure that giving birth is also extremely dangerous.

You've got to acknowledge the drawbacks to the old system too, Bill...  The women were more valued, yes... as property of their fathers and then their husbands.

 

PS- I've heard that Rebecca Clarke quit performing after she was married too.  Don't quote me on that... it's a story I still want to get to the bottom of.

 

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There is, I think, a theory that the perceived value of women in society is inversely proportional to the utility of their clothing.

It is not a theory at all that the females in society have had to deal with push back against their desire for personal accomplishment. Even someone as enlightened as Mendelson was adamantly opposed to his sister’s composing, even though she was quite good as he himself admitted. I don’t know how gifted Mozart’s sister was, but his attitude towards her was the same.

how much genius has been lost for such shameful reasons....

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Just now, sospiri said:

Let's get this story in perspective. It takes 2 to Tango.

They eloped, they were both strong willed. She wasn't a famous Cellist. For whatever reason, we don't know.

 

 

We know she was not a famous cellist, but we do not know whether she could have been. And that is the question.

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22 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

Literally the royal treatment.   Women were valued more highly than men, not the other way around.  Men fought the wars, had the dangerous jobs, provided, took all the risks, and in risky times.  Things change -- no more getting in the lifeboats first for you!

Er, what history books have you been reading? :wacko:

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5 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Let's get this story in perspective. It takes 2 to Tango.

They eloped, they were both strong willed. She wasn't a famous Cellist. For whatever reason, we don't know.

No. She wasn't a famous cellist. That's my point.

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24 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

Literally the royal treatment.   Women were valued more highly than men, not the other way around.  Men fought the wars, had the dangerous jobs, provided, took all the risks, and in risky times.  Things change -- no more getting in the lifeboats first for you!

 

1 minute ago, Rue said:

Er, what history books have you been reading? :wacko:

The ones where men took all the risks and women took all the lifeboats :D

 

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7 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

To be honest, she made her own choices and lived with the consequences.  Nobody forced her to fall in love with a monster (if he was)

Yes. She did. Maybe she was happy with her choice.

Mostly I was just intrigued when I flipped the calendar up to March and saw the poster.

She is still "more famous" than the violinist she dumped, Jiri Hruso. I can't find any mention of him.

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