Inscription Inside Violin — Translation Please

[jfield]

I opened up 3/4 violin today — a Mittenwald piece judging by pointed lining inserted into corner blocks, one piece lower rib, fluting on scroll to “the bitter end,” etc.

 

it has an inscription inside — German I assume.  Can someone translate it to English for me?

[Ron1]

Mirrored image?

[pyrola_asarifolia]

Yup, mirrored it says Mittenwald, then Andreas Kriner. One of the old German school cursive variants. 

[martin swan]

Andreas Kriner Mittenwald

But the orientation and layout are very strange ....

[Blank face]

It's probably meant to be read with a dentist mirror. That's rising the question from which period the inscription is dating.

[jacobsaunders]

Reminds me of those Bavarian souvenir shop “Bavarian clocks” that go anti-clockwise

[Bob K]

Easier to read when flipped!

[jfield]

Thank you (each of you) for the "illumination" on the inscription!  I've never seen anything remotely like this!  I wonder what this may reveal about Mr. Kriner???

[Brad Dorsey]

12 hours ago, Blank face said:

It's probably meant to be read with a dentist mirror....

This would make sense if the inscription were written on the inside of the top, because one would try to read it with a mirror inserted through an F hole.  But an inscription on the back wouldn't be read in a mirror.  It's curious.

 

11 hours ago, jfield said:

...I wonder what this may reveal about Mr. Kriner???

He was dyslexic.

[jfield]

When I get back to the shop I will go into my library of reference books to see if he is listed in any of my sources.

If anyone happens have anything on this Kriner, I would greatly appreciate it you would share the info!

[Blank face]

4 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

This would make sense if the inscription were written on the inside of the top, because one would try to read it with a mirror inserted through an F hole.  But an inscription on the back wouldn't be read in a mirror.  It's curious.

It was copied on the bottom by somebody who has spotted the writing at a belly - using a mirror.

 

4 hours ago, jfield said:

I wonder what this may reveal about Mr. Kriner???

Nothing. It's very unlikely that it was written by him personally.

[Jeny Mahon]

12 hours ago, jfield said:

When I get back to the shop I will go into my library of reference books to see if he is listed in any of my sources.

If anyone happens have anything on this Kriner, I would greatly appreciate it you would share the info!

You've probably already looked but here's all the Kriners in Jalovec: I don't see an Andreas listed.  I still think it's pretty cool, though! I love finding stuff like that in fiddles. 

[Ron1]

I believe DaVinci occasionally wrote things in reverse too.  What does that reveal about him?

[Ron1]

Come to think about it, I remember turning in a book report I wrote in reverse when I was in High School.  What does that reveal about me?  Never mind.

[pyrola_asarifolia]

On 2/26/2021 at 4:56 PM, Ron1 said:

I believe DaVinci occasionally wrote things in reverse too.  What does that reveal about him?

That he was left-handed. Which is also apparent in his shading. Tho I'm not an expert, and could be wrong, I believe he really was. (And there's some mirrored writing from Europeans from a while back, if they were left-handed.) 

This said, now that someone has posted a mirrored photo, the letters lean oddly. It doesn't look like left-handed writing to me, but again, I have no expertise. 

[J-G]

On 2/26/2021 at 5:47 PM, reepicheep said:

You've probably already looked but here's all the Kriners in Jalovec...

Thanks for that, repicheep.  A violin labeled Joseph Kriner, apparently from late-19th century Mittenwald, has just turned up on the Geige24 forum:

https://www.geige24-streicherforum.de/index.php?thread/5354-ich-brauche-ein-wenig-hilfe-bei-meiner-neuen-geige/

(Discussion focuses so far mainly on what traits identify Mittenwald work.)  

[PhilipKT]

16 minutes ago, J-G said:

Thanks for that, repicheep.  A violin labeled Joseph Kriner, apparently from late-19th century Mittenwald, has just turned up on the Geige24 forum:

https://www.geige24-streicherforum.de/index.php?thread/5354-ich-brauche-ein-wenig-hilfe-bei-meiner-neuen-geige/

(Discussion focuses so far mainly on what traits identify Mittenwald work.)  

Wait! Do you mean there’s a violin specific website that’s in German? And I never knew about it?

Unglaublich!

[PhilipKT]

Wie sagt man auf Deutsch,“INCONCEIVABLE“?

Ich denke ist besser dieses Wort zu benutzen.

[J-G]

unbegreiflich 

[J-G]

2 hours ago, J-G said:

 

.

[J-G]

3 minutes ago, J-G said:

 

Oops. 

[Blank face]

8 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Wait! Do you mean there’s a violin specific website that’s in German? And I never knew about it?

Unglaublich!

There's more between the heaven and earth than one might believe in TX. OTOH this website often recommends to ask on a certain "Amerikanisches Forum" (though it's meant Canadian I'm supposing).

The violin in question is a rather nice late 19th Verleger, but certainly not made by the Mr. Joseph Kriner Saiten-Instrumentenmacher in Altötting, but just bought in and labelled.

The OP question was about a mirrored Andreas Kriner inscription, and I don't think that other unrelated violins bearing accidentally the same surname can bring ny light into this affair.

[J-G]

Point taken.  Thank you, Blank Face.

[jacobsaunders]

18 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Wie sagt man auf Deutsch,“INCONCEIVABLE“?

Ich denke ist besser dieses Wort zu benutzen.

https://www.dict.cc/?s=inconceivable

[PhilipKT]

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

https://www.dict.cc/?s=inconceivable

You English are always so polite...

auch an @J-G vielen Dank!

Edited March 4, 2021 by PhilipKT