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hello,

i am new to this site and was hoping you could help me with a violin id.  i am trying to figure out whether this is a poor quality mass produced instrument, or a decent student violin (i.e., worth getting an appraisal so it can be insured in case my daughter breaks it).

 

thank you ... i love the sense of humour around here.

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As a new member, it takes some time till your topic is visible.

To me it looks like a decent Markneukirchen roughly from the first half of the 20th century, very similar to (for example) EH Roths, and in a quite good condition. So there's also a good 4-figure value to it, though this might depend of your location.

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It is a German mass produced instrument, but of quite a decent quality. It is worth having insured, if it may get trashed by your daughter, or at school.

I don’t understand your distinction about mass produced vs student instrument. All student instruments are mass produced.

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5 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

 

I don’t understand your distinction about mass produced vs student instrument. All student instruments are mass produced.

Depends of the number of the "mass". Wasn't it Roger H. saying that Strad had a shop for mass-producing high end violins?:ph34r::)

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5 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Depends of the number of the "mass". Wasn't it Roger H. saying that Strad had a shop for mass-producing high end violins?:ph34r::)

I guess this is the sliding scale, isn’t it?

On 2/22/2021 at 9:21 PM, slk said:

hello,

i am new to this site and was hoping you could help me with a violin id.  i am trying to figure out whether this is a poor quality mass produced instrument, or a decent student violin

 

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thanks for the information, good to know.  i think this is sufficient for me to take the violin to a local shop and have it appraised.  i took a closer look at the top of the violin near the bass bar.  there are ridges all across and it looks like one of them but i will definitely have a luthier take a look at it specifically.

i thought there was a distinction between super cheap "mass" violins worth $300-$500, and higher quality "mass" violins that would be good for somewhat serious students ... more in the $1500+ range.

 

many thanks for everyone's thoughts.

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From the mid nineteenth century until well into the twentieth, the area around Markneukirchen produced and exported over 100,000 violins per year. They were made by division of labour, one family making scrolls, another making ribs etc and others assembling the violins, often farmers as winter work. The companies and individuals who were paying for he work paid different amounts for different qualities and the finished articles were wholesaled by the dozen, from very basic almost unusable violin shaped objects up to some very nice instruments. Some of the better Dutzenbeit now sell for four low five figure sums, while others do not deserve to sell for low three figure sums, and there are everything in between, but they all came from the same place and were made by the same pre-industrial cottage industry system give or take a bit of romantic story telling. If you are interested @jacobsaunders posts will tell you everything you need to know! Provided there are no condition issues this looks like a very serviceable instrument which should be good enough to take your  daughter a good way along the journey to becoming a violinist. Absolutely get it insured.  

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On 2/25/2021 at 11:47 AM, Wood Butcher said:

I don’t understand your distinction about mass produced vs student instrument. All student instruments are mass produced.

Well, occasionally one stumbles upon a nice bench-made fractional.

@slk:

Welcome to MN, and thanks for posting your pictures. Over time, the plates can shrink causing seams to open and cracks to appear. In addition to the crack that @Blank face pointed out, it also looks like the bottom ribs are starting to bulge a bit, and somebody tried to close a seam with some white glue (which is a very bad thing to do).

It does look like a violin worth restoring by a competent luthier. In the meantime, it would be best to not play it. Playing violins with cracks and other condition issues can only make them worse and harder to repair.

 

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george, thank you so much for the advice.  i will make it a priority to get my violin to a luthier asap.  i live in the boston area and think there are several in the area.  is this website a good place to ask for specific recommendations?

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13 hours ago, Televet said:

From the mid nineteenth century until well into the twentieth, the area around Markneukirchen produced and exported over 100,000 violins per year. They were made by division of labour, one family making scrolls, another making ribs etc and others assembling the violins, often farmers as winter work. The companies and individuals who were paying for he work paid different amounts for different qualities and the finished articles were wholesaled by the dozen, from very basic almost unusable violin shaped objects up to some very nice instruments. Some of the better Dutzenbeit now sell for four low five figure sums, while others do not deserve to sell for low three figure sums, and there are everything in between, but they all came from the same place and were made by the same pre-industrial cottage industry system give or take a bit of romantic story telling. If you are interested @jacobsaunders posts will tell you everything you need to know! Provided there are no condition issues this looks like a very serviceable instrument which should be good enough to take your  daughter a good way along the journey to becoming a violinist. Absolutely get it insured.  

thank you ... i have read quite a few of jacob saunders' posts ... my mistake was one of terminology in making a distinction between "decent" student violins and "poor quality" mass produced ones when in fact, student violins were mass produced as well (though hopefully at a higher quality).

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