Varnishing Idea

[Rue]

1 hour ago, ShadowStrad said:

Oh, I'm not complaining.  I thought for some reason I would see the varnish on the Messiah and be like..."This is amazing!  I see what everyone is talking about".  My only thing is I truly wish this violin would be played but I understand the museum's point of view.  To play it is to ruin it (near pristine state).  

I like new items to look new. There's nothing "wrong" with a nice, new, shiny violin. Hopefully it will also acquire a beautiful, honest patina over time.

I like the look of an honestly acquired patina. Well maintained antiques are beautiful and come with an awesome connection to history.

I don't even mind an obviously new instrument with some tasteful minor "antiquing" in the form of subtle colour shading.

But I detest overt antiquing. Antiquing a new instrument in such a way that I am reminded of an unkempt, sweat-riddled person in dire need of a shower is unfathomable. What possible appeal is there in that?

But what the hey...I also don't have to like it...or want it...or buy it...or pay a premium for it, etc. 

 

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:00 AM, John Harte said:

Roger, I'm curious.  What is the exception?

Shall we start taking bets?

[Roger Hargrave]

On 2/5/2021 at 11:00 AM, John Harte said:

Roger, I'm curious.  What is the exception?

 

18 hours ago, sospiri said:

Aha! That would be telling. 

I did not write Aha That would be telling. But I promise I’ll get around to that later.

[Roger Hargrave]

I’m just back after a long pause and I’m having difficulty remembering how to use this site. I hope that you will bare with me if I ignore some post while I go on my merry way. I like the odd message that helps me to think about the topic, but please, I don’t need any more posts about such rubbish topics as the Messi Strad being a fake.

[sospiri]

1 hour ago, Roger Hargrave said:

 

I did not write Aha That would be telling. But I promise I’ll get around to that later.

And why we must never use pigments, stains or dyes Roger?

Will we go madder and madder?

[Roger Hargrave]

In my opinion, most successful modern varnishes (admittedly not all) attempt to emulate those of northern Italy C 1550 to 1750. Such varnishes usually (not always) do this, by artificially ageing all or part of the material in varnish film.  

This might involve oxidizing the drying oil by various means. Or, it might involve oxidising the resins before varnish making commences. 

Occasionally, it involves oxidizing the whole vanish during or after the cooking process. And finally, it might involve oxidizing the varnish after it has been applied. 

Visually oxidisation usually works well, but it can have serious consequences for the violin, the varnish and the player. 

I do not intend to examine the various methods here. These can easily be found on the net, save to say that quite apart from the (unavoidable) cooking process, many recipes also involve dangerous chemicals such as nitric acid. Some of which will not only affect skin and lungs but can also cause varnishes to disintegrate in the long term. 

Historically, all drying oil varnishes were cooked and blended with their various resins. Because of the very real danger of fire, varnish cooking, was only allowed outside city walls. 

I am just going to give you a simple way of preparing a varnish that will do the job. But please, do not believe that this method is not potentially dangerous, because it is.  

As for stains dyes and pigments I have written enough about why NOT on Maestronet. I believe on the bass blog there was quite a bit, but I don’’t know how to access these earlier posts.

More when I find the time.

[John Harte]

Thank you Roger.  I look forward to hearing more when time allows.

[David Burgess]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:35 AM, MikeC said:

Roger Hargrave are you suggesting the old Cremona guys did not put any color in their varnish?  

Might he be suggesting that the resin component of the varnish is colored with heat, rather than the varnish being colored by adding pigments or dyes (other than some minor tinting variations of the the heat-produced color)?

[MikeC]

30 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Might he be suggesting that the resin component of the varnish is colored with heat, rather than the varnish being colored by adding pigments or dyes (other than some minor tinting variations of the the heat-produced color)?

That's a possibility certainly, we do it now so there's no reason someone back then didn't think of that idea.  But they did add some lake pigments and maybe even some small amounts of opaque pigments like cinnabar...   looking forward to more input from Roger...