Curious corner - purfling off centre the other way


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2 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

This picture is of  amateurish work but the point of the purfling pointing outward has sometimes been done by some pretty good makers including Carl Becker senior.

Anyone else come to mind? Maybe any connection between makers? Or some classic to take inspiration from?

Or just random individuals here and there who may have just smoked their cigar from the wrong end that day?

I agree it looks decidedly odd to say the least :-)

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5 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

But why?!

The curves of the purfling are not elegant or practiced, especially the top one.  If you mean why point it in the opposite direction, I guess they prefer it that way. The one in the pic, I suspect they just wanted to put it somewhere

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13 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

But why?!

Why not?

The Becker I am thinking of had the corners pointing out, sharp,, upright  jagged  Del Gesu influenced FFs and the feel of a Halloween mask. One of the most strikingly original instruments I have ever seen and could only have been pulled off by an absolute master. Unless I am mistaken I believe Del Gesu himself sometimes pointed the stinger toward the outer bout also.

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There are quite a few examples that I can think of where sloppy verbal descriptions have caused makers to do something that isn't seen in the original instruments. It's only relatively recently that many photos of original instruments are easily available so that people can see things that previously only read about. I think if someone had only read that the purfling in the corners "diverges" from the center of the corner, the logical conclusion might be that they diverge from each other, leading to this.

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8 hours ago, Michael Darnton said:

There are quite a few examples that I can think of where sloppy verbal descriptions have caused makers to do something that isn't seen in the original instruments. It's only relatively recently that many photos of original instruments are easily available so that people can see things that previously only read about. I think if someone had only read that the purfling in the corners "diverges" from the center of the corner, the logical conclusion might be that they diverge from each other, leading to this.

 Michael.

Are you aware of any Del Gesu or other classical instruments which have points diverging outward? In my memory of that conversation with Carl Becker Jr when he showed me his Dad's fiddle I believe he told me DG sometimes did this.

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3 hours ago, martin swan said:

I think this is a bit of an optical illusion caused by the wear to the table corners. The back, which presents a truer picture of the original state, has the purfling very centred in the corners.

In each quadrant, the green lines are all the same length.  The bulk of the effect seems due to a greater distance from the edge of the c-bout purfling channels, but there is some drift even beyond that.

968663997_TarFrugc1680cornersfr.thumb.png.7e76a76d7fd8e5d1cf8135ea5eb3a27d.png

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12 minutes ago, Andres Sender said:

In each quadrant, the green lines are all the same length.  The bulk of the effect seems due to a greater distance from the edge of the c-bout purfling channels, but there is some drift even beyond that.

Which can happen if the purfling marker isn’t kept completely square to the edge.

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This is kinda "out there" but I had an original idea (or at least I thought it was original, until now) to make the purfling point outwards like the OP's example.

You may ask, why? Well, first ask yourself, what is purfling's function? To keep cracks from traveling any further past the purfling. Keeping the cracks more controlled prevents further damage to the remainder of the belly. 

So, in this case, having the tip of the purfling (the point where the purfling meets in the corners) have a more perpendicular direction in relation to the grain protects more surface area of the corners as this purfling pierces through more lines of grain at the top compared to a corner that is angled upwards and more parallel to the grain like the blue line in this image. 

1766750565_ScreenShot2021-01-28at5_10_45PM.thumb.png.38170fde7398f1e8897dae1b4ffee274.png

Notice how the tip of the purfling starts to reach an asymptote almost at the nearest grain line. If you have the corner angled outward, (not pictured here in this graphic) you can intersect with more grain lines and thus, protect more of your corner from chipping off.

I think this idea supports why the 1680 Rugeri has this odd purfling characteristic only on the belly rather than the back, because the top wood is softer and more likely to lose its corners.

Just a theory, I do not have the skills or tools to test it out nor do I even know if what I said makes sense, just my two senseless cents.

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