Recognize the name? Very hard to read..


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I have an old violin from my great aunt who played in the symphony.  Trying to read the label  Johann something, something, something, Mittenwald, 1822.   

Can any of you recognize the name or read the cursive?  picture is petty small don't know if it will expand in the viewer..   I took two pictures with a camera and pieced them together.

Johann.png

violin 2.jpg

violin 1.png

Edited by Johann ??
additional pictures.
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I cannot make the script out at all, but I would highly recommend that you take photographs of the rest of the instrument, using the guide provided at the beginning of this board. Even if we can’t decipher the name, One of the many experts here can narrow it down to time and place. By the way, please share information about the bow, frequently the bow ages better than the violin

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1 hour ago, FiddleDoug said:

"By the way, please share information about the bow, frequently the bow ages better than the violin "

You're kidding, right? Most of the time, the bow has nothing to do with who made the violin, or when.

I think FiddleDoug just wants to see photos of the bow.  Ever since I received a rose gold mounted Hill bow in the case of a fiddle I got off of eBay for $375, I always want to see the bow! The listing didn't even mention bows at all, and there were three in the case; the Hill, a nice silver mounted German and a nickel mounted German.  The fiddle was a cute old Markie as I recall, very pretty varnish that had been antiqued quite well.  We sold it for $2500 to somebody wanting to use it as a model for antiquing, and the Hill went for $6,500.  I have photos of that bow somewhere, I should dig them up and post sometime.  

That was many years and many fiddles ago... complete beginner's luck which has not been repeated since, but I keep trying :lol: 

 

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I remember multiple times buying an instrument that came with a bow that had been tossed off as insignificant. Even at an auction house like Skinner, I got some a few quite nice bows. One of them was a lovely and perfect violin bow by AJ Maskrey. I actually posted about it here 20 years or so ago, with no luck, although I have since found out he was a competent maker of violins and bows.

Just a couple of months ago I bought a crummy violin just to get the nice bow that was with it. So no, I’m not kidding.

At a garage sale in the early 70s a friends father bought a Scarampella cello just to get the Peccatte bow that came with it( that was some garage sale!)

He wasn’t kidding either.

Of course the bow has nothing to do with the instrument, but I fail to see how that means anything. Check the bow. At the very least it appears to have silver lapping.

It may be nothing, it may be something.

No kidding.

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

We can all tell our own personal “the one that got away” anecdotes. Fact is, that the “with bow in case” part is almost invariably a piece of shit that isn’t worth rehairing

Yes that is true. But if someone brings a violin into the shop you’re going to look at the bow just to check. Every single time.

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Fact is, that the “with bow in case” part is almost invariably a piece of shit that isn’t worth rehairing

Not so much re-hairing - not worth new lapping, new thumbpad, new tip-plate, and/or re-cambering.

I come across lots of bows that would be worth re-hairing if that was the only thing that they needed, but they usually need one or more of the other repairs, too.

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3 hours ago, Johann ?? said:

Ok. Included the bow.. lol.  and the old case..  just for a laugh. 

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Can you photograph the bow from 6 inches away instead of 6 feet away? Does it have a name or country stamped on the stick?

Edited by PhilipKT
Doubling
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Neuner Family members were during this period usually wholesalers (Verleger) and dealed instruments made by others, often in division of labour. So the value for instruments in a good and well set up condition might be in the low thousands.

I can tell even from a six feet distance, just by the shape of head and adjuster, that the bow is a low grade Markneukirchen around 1900 in a rather bad condition. As expected like we explained elsewhere.

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8 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Neuner Family members were during this period usually wholesalers (Verleger) and dealed instruments made by others, often in division of labour. So the value for instruments in a good and well set up condition might be in the low thousands.

I can tell even from a six feet distance, just by the shape of head and adjuster, that the bow is a low grade Markneukirchen around 1900 in a rather bad condition. As expected like we explained elsewhere.

I’m very impressed you can discern that from this picture. I’m looking on my iPhone and I can barely tell it is a bow at all.

Still, it remains true: always look at the bow.

Edited by PhilipKT
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5 hours ago, Johann ?? said:

Ok. Included the bow.. lol.  and the old case..  just for a laugh. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Could you post a close-up, full sized photo of the middle of the back which includes all four corners, maybe in daylight if possible?  I've attached an edited version of your photo as an example.  

example.jpg

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32 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Still, it remains true: always look at the bow.

I’m getting a bit tired of looking at the heap of some hundreds bows similar to these collecting dust in the corner. It’s time to start with the tomato field soon.:rolleyes:

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16 minutes ago, Blank face said:

I’m getting a bit tired of looking at the heap of some hundreds bows similar to these collecting dust in the corner. It’s time to start with the tomato field soon.:rolleyes:

I appreciate that, but remember, you’ve seen many thousands, and I am way behind you. However, I love tomatoes.

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3 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Can you photograph the bow from 6 inches away instead of 6 feet away? Does it have a name or country stamped on the stick?

Plenty close enough - look at the button, it will tell you everything you need to know ...

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

Plenty close enough - look at the button, it will tell you everything you need to know ...

Yes I see it is looks from here like a three piece cap missing the outer ring. It might be clearer if I weren’t using my phone.

on second thought it looks like a one piece button with an odd wooden cap?

Edited by PhilipKT
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