Trading musical instruments after Brexit


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35 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Ah, I see now.
So if the politicians weren't gay, and hadn't been to Eton, you think Westminster would be better run :wacko:

The politicians have always been to Eton, and being gay is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for being a shirt-lifter.

It's true that we moved south two years ago - you know, the only thing I really miss about Scotland is Scotland.

 

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9 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The politicians have always been to Eton, and being gay is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for being a shirt-lifter.

It's true that we moved south two years ago - you know, the only thing I really miss about Scotland is Scotland.

 

Do you miss Jim Davidson too?

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8 minutes ago, martin swan said:

:blink:

Can you make that idiot-proof?

If you google shirt lifter, his name comes up.

I miss the good old days of grate British comedy though.

Bernard Manning:

" Me? Racist? It's a fookin joke. Ow can I be fookin racist? I'm fookin Jewish!. I ad a bunch of Pakistanis at me show the other night. They fookin loved it!"

 

 

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I feel like US culture is being under-represented in this thread.

A while ago, the US started requiring women to disclose the father of a child, so the father could be required to pay child support. One woman wrote on the government submission form, "I don't know who the baby-daddy is, since I was was busy puking out the window at a party, when I was taken from behind." :lol:

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55 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I feel like US culture is being under-represented in this thread.

A while ago, the US started requiring women to disclose the father of a child, so the father could be required to pay child support. One woman wrote on the government submission form, "I don't know who the baby-daddy is, since I was was busy puking out the window at a party, when I was taken from behind." :lol:

Stay classy, Mr B :)

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On 12/29/2020 at 7:49 AM, Blank face said:

Does anybody know which rules will apply for trading with instruments between the UK and the EU according to the "Christmas miracle deal"?

I'd expect that "don't get caught" is one of them.  :ph34r:  :lol:  outtahere.gif..gif.5ee8367a833a96792ca47c09576250be.gif

Happy New Year, everyone!  :)

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Slightly off-topic, but directly concerning supply of goods from EU and anywhere else overseas to the uk

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

From a Dutch bike parts company:  "Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK."

So it's bye-bye to supplies from Europe, then? it is clear now that overseas firms are forced to register with HMRC, collect VAT then remit it to HMRC if they want to sell to UK customers.

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Although I am massively against Brexit and all of its consequences, the Dutch bike company's rant would be relevant if we hadn't struck a last minute free trade deal with the EU.

Also the mechanism they are attempting to describe and which I think they have misunderstood is about OMPs or online marketplaces. The measures which are being put in place are an attempt to make sure that online resellers of manufactured goods do in fact pay tax somewhere rather than nowhere - which is surely a good thing.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Fergie said:

So it's bye-bye to supplies from Europe, then? it is clear now that overseas firms are forced to register with HMRC, collect VAT then remit it to HMRC if they want to sell to UK customers.

But that is in line with how it works inside EU now(at least partly as i understand it). If I order (from Sweden) bicycle parts from one of the big german e-shops, I pay swedish VAT to the german company which in turn pays it to the swedish tax office.

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Yes, it's important to pay tax. But forcing eu companies to register and pay directly to HMRC seems beyond what can reasonably be expected, hence the words quoted from the Dutch company. I received a similar message from a non-violin-related company in the middle of last year who flatly refused to deliver to the uk. Apologies if I have missed something fundamental, I'm not an economist.

From the govt webpage: "For goods sent from overseas and sold directly to UK consumers without online marketplace involvement, the overseas seller will be required to register and account for the VAT to HMRC."

"Business to business sales not exceeding £135 in value will also be subject to the new rules. However, where the business customer is VAT registered in the UK and provides its valid VAT registration number to the seller, the VAT will be accounted for by the customer by means of a reverse charge."

So it looks as if small UK businesses who do not meet the VAT threshold (of which there must be plenty) may or will experience difficulty in obtaining supplies from the EU and will be forced unfairly to register for VAT.

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8 hours ago, Fergie said:

 

So it looks as if small UK businesses who do not meet the VAT threshold (of which there must be plenty) may or will experience difficulty in obtaining supplies from the EU and will be forced unfairly to register for VAT.

EDIT : surely a small business that isn't VAT registered was paying UK VAT on all goods bought in the UK and (for example) German VAT on all goods bought in Germany? So even if the place where you pay the VAT changes, there won't suddenly be some incentive to register for VAT that wasn't there before ...

It does seem incredible that we are all trying to work this out for ourselves 4 yeas after the referendum. The BBC meanwhile continues to obsess about what Brexit will mean for Britons wanting to go on holiday to Benidorm.

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

EDIT : surely a small business that isn't VAT registered was paying UK VAT on all goods bought in the UK and (for example) German VAT on all goods bought in Germany? So even if the place where you pay the VAT changes, there won't suddenly be some incentive to register for VAT that wasn't there before ...

It does seem incredible that we are all trying to work this out for ourselves 4 yeas after the referendum. The BBC meanwhile continues to obsess about what Brexit will mean for Britons wanting to go on holiday to Benidorm.

It's a big disadvantage to the small UK maker. I've lost two customers to the VAT charge. Effectively the EU customer becomes what is technically known as 'the importer of record'. That represents a 20% hike in the price. Neither were prepared to pay that increase although one of them did ask if I could remove the British VAT charge. Impossible because I'm not VAT registered, therefore there is no VAT. 

Earlier on in the year I did get a few emails asking about the changes and what the charges would be. Lol. I didn't have a clue and said as much. Perhaps I lost them as well, who knows. I do know that the market has shrunk and it's difficult to see how I can compensate for it. It's not as though I refused orders from the US, Japan or even India! I've even thought of reducing my price to EU customers by 10%, meeting them half way. I was on the edge of viability anyway. This has just made life much more difficult. If some alternative magically appeared tomorrow I'd be out of the workshop in a flash. There's more to life than chipping away at bits of wood, taking all the risk and being served with a meager living. 

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When I first came to Austria in 1985, Austria wasn't in the EU, or common market as it was then called either. They didn’t join until 1995. VAT on violins, new or old, was 20% and there was no margin scheme, and the so called “Iron Curtain” was just a few miles away. The consequence of all that was that all violin dealing was exclusively black market, “for cash”. If there were exceptions to that rule, I didn’t hear of them

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5 hours ago, martin swan said:

EDIT : surely a small business that isn't VAT registered was paying UK VAT on all goods bought in the UK and (for example) German VAT on all goods bought in Germany? So even if the place where you pay the VAT changes, there won't suddenly be some incentive to register for VAT that wasn't there before ...

It does seem incredible that we are all trying to work this out for ourselves 4 yeas after the referendum. The BBC meanwhile continues to obsess about what Brexit will mean for Britons wanting to go on holiday to Benidorm.

"Business to business sales not exceeding £135 in value will also be subject to the new rules. However, where the business customer is VAT registered in the UK and provides its valid VAT registration number to the seller, the VAT will be accounted for by the customer by means of a reverse charge."

Which implies that the reverse charge is only available to VAT registered companies.

The issue is that EU companies will have to pay to register and then will pay VAT to HMRC in order to be able to continue supplying  their UK customers who are not VAT registered. They will be turned into unpaid tax collectors for a foreign country. Can you imagine the Daily Mail headlines if small uk companies were forced to register and pay tax directly to the German authorities!!!
I will report back on a couple of orders in progress.

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6 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

When I first came to Austria in 1985, Austria wasn't in the EU, or common market as it was then called either. They didn’t join until 1995. VAT on violins, new or old, was 20% and there was no margin scheme, and the so called “Iron Curtain” was just a few miles away. The consequence of all that was that all violin dealing was exclusively black market, “for cash”. If there were exceptions to that rule, I didn’t hear of them

My (already immense) respect for you just shot up by 20%.  :ph34r:  :lol:

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