Is middle bout dimension right?

[Goran74]

Hello! I just finished a mold on a Guadagnini violin. I am working from photos (followed the outer purfling line / about 2 overhang and 1.2 ribs). Also I reversed the one side to achieve symmetry. 

The origimal measurements on middle bouts are 113mm.

My mold is 106mm at the middle. So, I go for a ~114,115 middle. 

I was wondering if 114~115 is too big for a violin, since most of strads and del gesus are below these numbers. Will be playing at E string comfortable, or the bow will hit easy at the edge? 

Which are the limits at violin bouts in the end? 

*(the original violin is 351~352, so would like to add some mm ot get a 355).

Thank you! 

[Wood Butcher]

You say you are making a Guadagnini, but are also changing the dimensions, so effectively not then making a Guadagnini at all.

The wider you make the C bouts, the more difficult bowing will be, but this is also influenced by arching height and neck angle too.

[Shunyata]

I would also note that unless the photos were taken specifically for the purpose of reproduction, at pure right angles, the dimensions will easily be distorted by several mm.

An oblique photo angle would create L-R asymmetry and a center that appeared disproportionately wide, which seems to be what you are describing!

[Goran74]

32 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

You say you are making a Guadagnini, but are also changing the dimensions

Thank you for your answers. 

I have 2, 3 mm difference from original measurements. 

By the way, when you copy a violin do you ever achieve 100% at wood, Wood treatment, ground, colour, dimensions, arching etc?? (2,3 mm is the problem?) What do you copy - Dimensions? 

I asked about middle bouts and not about copying directions (that are very relative and widely discussed in other topics). 

 

[Goran74]

22 minutes ago, Shunyata said:

appeared disproportionately wide, which seems to be what you are describing!

113mm are measurements at the book and not mine, on the specific violin. My mold is 106mm that leads to final 114~115 ribs+overhang.

[Don Noon]

You have to be careful how the "measurements" are measured.  My Strad model C bout measured 108 with calipers, but 112 with a tape over the arching.

[Christopher Jacoby]

2 hours ago, Goran74 said:

Thank you for your answers. 

I have 2, 3 mm difference from original measurements. 

By the way, when you copy a violin do you ever achieve 100% at wood, Wood treatment, ground, colour, dimensions, arching etc?? (2,3 mm is the problem?) What do you copy - Dimensions? 

I asked about middle bouts and not about copying directions (that are very relative and widely discussed in other topics). 

 

This is why one shouldn't use the word "copy" casually. Just as luthiers don't use "appraisal" casually when "insurance evaluation" is what they mean... because the cats that are truly doing the thang aren't messing around about what they mean with their word choice...

[Goran74]

JB Guadagnini 's ex Krasner 1766 is 4 7/16 inches at the middle and Van Atta 1773 goes to 4 11/16 that means 119mm.

This is the reason I ask, when middle section considered as' too wide'.

Arching varies from flat to middle height.

[Davide Sora]

2 hours ago, Goran74 said:

JB Guadagnini 's ex Krasner 1766 is 4 7/16 inches at the middle and Van Atta 1773 goes to 4 11/16 that means 119mm.

This is the reason I ask, when middle section considered as' too wide'.

Arching varies from flat to middle height.

Playability problems depend on the correlation between the width of the Cs, the height of the arch and the height of the bridge (so neck angle and eventual lateral inclination of the fingerboard). Small variations of these aspects can lead to large modifications of the setup, so they cannot be considered separately and approximately.

Another thing to consider is whether your measurements are taken from the back or from the top, because they often differ, especially in Guadagnini. I would consider the top plate first to obtain the form, in order to have the correlation with arching height, F-holes position and stop length (mensur), overlapping the back outline only later to adjust the aesthetics of the lines. By carefully observing the amount and kind of wear of the Cs of the top plate you can also get valuable information on the playability problems of that specific instrument, more wear more problems.

[Goran74]

24 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

they cannot be considered separately and approximately.

I agree. Thank you David for your wise words. That is what I would like to mean above. Arching, setup, treatment etc. are considered seperetly for each model we make and we have to be accurate.

I had only original measurements of the back and that is why I followed that outline. 

I did not say I 'copy' a Guadagnini (and I do not think ever I copied an instrument). I said my mold is based on a Guadagnini.