Wrap-Around On Scroll Fluting


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I am completely self taught without good professional examples to work from.  So I have a question about the outer f luting on the scroll...

How far under the scroll (where is joins the pegbox) does the fluting usually extend?

Below is a scroll that I have roughed out (cherry, for a fiddle).  The images show how far I can go with gouges but without buggering up the pegbox.  Is this acceptable?  If not, how do I do it?

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How far the fluting goes into the throat differs depending on what school of violin making one wishes to aspire too. It is also a useful hint when one is trying to work out where an antique violin comes from. On Mittenwald violins for instance, the fluting goes right to the bitter end of the throat, on Markneukirchen ones, the fluting often finishes at about 6 o’clock, on cheaper ones, even earlier. From your pictures, I would describe yours as about 6 o’clock, quarter past perhaps. If you can’t get any further than that with a gouge, you should try using a knife. You would make life easier for yourself if the throat were more open (i.e. wider). A head doesn't need to go around with it's chin down on its chest:)

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Thank you for your kind assistance.  Knife worked well.  Managed to add an extra 30 minutes of turn in.  So perhaps I am in Western France now?  :-)

Thank you for the advice about the throat.  I bought some Stradivarius Mediceo 1747 metal templates for the arching and neck - and the neck template has no throat as you have noted.  I have wondered whether this was an artifact of the metal cutting process rather than "actual" to the 1747 instrument.

On the other hand, the arching templates sound very nice and much better than flatter the arching I was using before.

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Shunyata,

When working under the throat you need to cut across the flute rather than along it. A knife works well but I find a chisel with a convex grind on the bevel can be used with the bevel down (towards the fluting) to cut across the flute right up to the throat. As Jacob said the tighter the throat the more difficult that will be.

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52 minutes ago, Shunyata said:

Thank you for your kind assistance.  Knife worked well.  Managed to add an extra 30 minutes of turn in.  So perhaps I am in Western France now?  :-)

Thank you for the advice about the throat.  I bought some Stradivarius Mediceo 1747 metal templates for the arching and neck - and the neck template has no throat as you have noted.  I have wondered whether this was an artifact of the metal cutting process rather than "actual" to the 1747 instrument.

On the other hand, the arching templates sound very nice and much better than flatter the arching I was using before.

The Mediceo (Medici) is from 1716, not 1747 (perhaps the authors of the template have changed the date in order not to have copyright issues:lol:). The Mediceo throat is quite open, but often in the templates and during work it becomes narrower due to too much material left on the mark on both sides (pegbox and volute), a fairly common mistake. The back is fluted up to the end, as quite typical of Stradivari. I use knife and small flat gouge by cutting crosswise (see my video if you like). Difficult and tricky job, but it is one of the details that show the mastery of the luthier when you see a clean and accurate working.

957527435_Medici1716scrollflutingdetail.thumb.jpg.9881d75af8fca11a8eb3f65eb6f623f1.jpg99495376_Medici1716scrolldx.thumb.jpg.043286e32f4ed8a5465d50be470cb928.jpg

 

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10 minutes ago, Nick Allen said:

You should be aware that commercial templates are seldom close to accurate to the real deal. You're better off studying photos and other reference materials. 

My father always advised his night school students, to have a real old violin on their bench for reference when making an (early) new one. It is miles better to try and make a Collin-Mezin, or even the infamous Jusek, that you can pick up and look at, than some crappy pictures or plans

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11 hours ago, Shunyata said:

Ha!  I think I agree with Mr. Saunders... have the original in front of you while you work.

Yeah. Pretty soon us young guys will be lucky if we can get our hands on a JTL or Roth lol. With the rising prices of literally anything of value, and violins being treated as trading stock, all we'll have is templates given enough time. 

Although I'm being half-facetious. 

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