Arrigo Tivoli Fiorini Fake?

[pennygirl78]

Hi! I am new to this forum and thought I would get some insight on a cello! I bought this cello maybe  a 1.5 years ago from a man who had it in his attic for a while, does not remember how it was acquired or that he even had it in his attic. It did not come with a case and was in very bad condition (my guess due to extreme temperatures in attic). The varnish is completely gone, there are cracks on the front of the cello, roughed up sides, scratches all over, and the seams on the side & where the neck meets the base were open, etc. Clearly this cello was not cared for at all, additionally, someone had "defiled" & engraved a name on the back of the cello and a number (why that was done, I do not know). I had some repairs done but not all due to time. I changed the pegs, tailpiece, and bridge ( bridge in photo is just temporary until I get one made for this cello) Inside the cello, there is a label that reads "ARRIGO TIVOLI FIORINI ALLIEVO E NIPOTE DI GIUSEPPE FIORINI FECE in SAN REMO anno 1961"  

However, reading previous posts, the writing on the label seems to be a bit blurry, almost as if it was written with a sharpie, which makes me doubt that this is an authentic ATF cello. I tried to google this maker but not much came up except for a few verified auctioned violas, violins and one cello, all made within a 1920-1965 span.  I have included a lot pictures and would love to know what you guys think! Even if it isn't original, could it still be Italian? If not, I would appreciate if you guys could help me figure out the origins of where this cello was made based on design of the cello or type of wood used! Thanks! 

[pennygirl78]

Additionally inside the cello, there are markings of a penciled in "15" twice on the bottom of the cello on the right and left side, near the end pin and twice on the top of the cello, right and left side. Can' take a picture of it. 

[pennygirl78]

https://finefretted.com/instrument_detail.php?i=207. This is the only cello I found made by the same maker but in 1923. Not sure if this helps!

[glebert]

I wonder if the scrawl on the back indicates it was used in a public school. Normally I would expect that to be done a bit neater, but it does look like F'Dale Pub (Ferndale Public?), and maybe it was cello #24. 

[Bill Merkel]

13 minutes ago, glebert said:

it does look like F'Dale Pub (Ferndale Public?)

Frackdale, North Dakota

 

P.S. Op, what makes you think the varnish is gone?

[pennygirl78]

41 minutes ago, glebert said:

I wonder if the scrawl on the back indicates it was used in a public school. Normally I would expect that to be done a bit neater, but it does look like F'Dale Pub (Ferndale Public?), and maybe it was cello #24. 

I am not sure, the man who sold me the cello is from Farmingdale, so maybe it's something to do with the town/city he lives in? I wonder if this is a practice of public schools or schools in general to carve on the back of the cello? Doesn't seem right to me, but who am I to judge

[pennygirl78]

28 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

Frackdale, North Dakota

 

P.S. Op, what makes you think the varnish is gone?

I'm not sure if I'm using the correct word, but the there is no gloss/a protectant layer on most of the cello (not sure if varnish is the right word for this). The cello scratches very very easily, just an accidental brush of a fingernail against the wood will create a very noticeable scratch. Also, there are some small parts of the cello that seem to have the original varnish because it has a bit of a gloss to it. Maybe the heat/extreme temperatures in the attic caused it?

[jacobsaunders]

It’s not a “Fake” of anything, just a cheap Schönbach box, with a moronic label that someone has stuck in later

[Rue]

Why is the bridge black? Was that a "thing" at one point, or the result of a bored student during detention?

[glebert]

12 hours ago, pennygirl78 said:

I am not sure, the man who sold me the cello is from Farmingdale, so maybe it's something to do with the town/city he lives in? I wonder if this is a practice of public schools or schools in general to carve on the back of the cello? Doesn't seem right to me, but who am I to judge

I've seen a number of cellos that had something scratched in to indicate the school system and an inventory number, but as I said usually they are done more neatly and inconspicously. 

[Rue]

Some kid likely scratched it in.  Maybe they were giving a concert and the conductor told everyone to watch to make sure stuff wasn't stolen and this was the kid's idea of security...or possibly just graffiti during a boring class...

[pennygirl78]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Why is the bridge black? Was that a "thing" at one point, or the result of a bored student during detention?

This bridge was a gift from an amateur lutheir friend who carved the bridge and dyed it; the black color/ "paint" is made from chinese inkstick and soot. It's a temporary bridge that I put on until I get one fitted for the cello. 

[PhilipKT]

Way back when, about 1974 I guess, I discovered that the corner of the button of my bow was sharp, and one Friday afternoon I engraved my name in the varnish of my cello.

On Monday afternoon, I got in trouble for this bit of artistry, and to this day I wonder how Mrs. Turet  knew it was me.

I have often wondered about that cello.

In retrospect I realize it was a very solid, very respectable good quality wooden cello, and that’s what yours looks like as well. Very straightforward factory instrument with some years on it. I actually expect that once it is set up it will sound very acceptable and at least In my area, despite the graffiti, it would sell for more than enough to make up for the cost of restoration. Did it come with a bow? If so photographs of that would be welcome.

[ShadowStrad]

On 12/17/2020 at 9:26 AM, Rue said:

Why is the bridge black? Was that a "thing" at one point, or the result of a bored student during detention?

Maybe the bridge is carbon fiber.

[Rue]

No. It was painted, the OP kindly explained that above.