Sibelius Sonata for Unaccompanied Violin


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One minute in and I'm already distracted by the bow-change graunching noises. But graunches or no, I regard this as another example of gratuitous, presumptuous, self-aggrandizing behaviour that seems to have become rather frequent among violinists of a certain age. 

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2 hours ago, matesic said:

One minute in and I'm already distracted by the bow-change graunching noises. But graunches or no, I regard this as another example of gratuitous, presumptuous, self-aggrandizing behaviour that seems to have become rather frequent among violinists of a certain age. 

Fully agree. 

 

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^You've got those Spock ears though.  The text that goes with it says it was more a public practice an hour before the real concert.  Either way it's interesting.  Why is it more "gratuitous, presumptuous, self-aggrandizing" than standing there playing the Chaconne or Ysaye sonatas? lol

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1 hour ago, Bill Merkel said:

1. ^You've got those Spock ears though. 

2. The text that goes with it says it was more a public practice an hour before the real concert. 

3. Either way it's interesting. 

4. Why is it more "gratuitous, presumptuous, self-aggrandizing" than standing there playing the Chaconne or Ysaye sonatas?

5. lol

1. No. Only more than five decades of practice.

2. That's her text and means nothing. She wanted to show off ( not the first time - she's got M5 as well somewhere ) and she did. 

3. In some way it is and that's why I listened to more or less all of it. She's well schooled, ( almost ) always well prepared and as a performer she shows admirable integrity and respect towards the public. I like those. Musically, she's basically not interesting and in any case she's a player of  limited expression. 

4. It is not "more" it simply "is". The c/to loses a lot of sense w/out an orchestra around. Pointless exercise. She's into a lot of dubious publicity later. 

5. At what exactly ???

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Five decades on your ears makes them worse, not better.  

How is playing it without an orchestra more of a show off stunt than playing it WITH an orchestra?  I wouldn't consider either one is a stunt but if it was why should it bother anyone?

The lol is just I picture a blue nose offended critic, and somebody doing harm to something they stand for.  Maybe not accurate but that's the feel

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12 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

Why is it more "gratuitous, presumptuous, self-aggrandizing" than standing there playing the Chaconne or Ysaye sonatas? lol

It's a piece for violin and orchestra. I therefore conclude that the orchestra is an integral part of the conception and public performance of the violin part alone is therefore musically gratuitous. Perhaps she really believes that hearing the solo part alone will be illuminating for the audience, but she must also presume that she can "carry the show" all by herself.

Masterclasses are more illuminating but also often self-aggrandizing to a greater or lesser degree. It's unnecessary and objectionable (at least to us blue-noses) for musicians, no matter how fine, to carry their egos to the fore.

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...lol...well, have we just taken nit-picking to a new level??? ^_^

Like her style or not...I don't see why she can't, or shouldn't, play whatever she wants to...

I think it's nice to hear something played 'solo', you hear things you'd missed otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Bill Merkel said:

^You seem to be pretty sure what the motivations are, her's and everyone else's too, and in specific circumstances.  Freud said the real motivation is to find a beautiful lover...

Gee, and I thought Freud's explanations for everything went back to obsessing over your genitalia while lusting to commit incest.  He was also the archetype of the weird screwball shrink, but what can you expect from a guy who shot up cocaine a lot.  :ph34r:  :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Gee, and I thought Freud's explanations for everything went back to obsessing over your genitalia while wanting to commit incest.  He was also the archetype of the screwball shrink, but what can you expect from a guy who shot up cocaine a lot.  :ph34r:  :lol:

Definite screwball.  It was all Eros/Thanatos to him.

-------

It takes real hauteur to criticize Hahn on technique.  She's one of the most technically proficient players out there.  Universally acclaimed.  Any sound she's creating, I'd be pretty sure she's creating it on purpose.  Perhaps matesic has never performed with a symphony orchestra at his back in a large hall?  It's presents a rather different technical challenge.

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7 minutes ago, Stephen Fine said:

It takes real hauteur to criticize Hahn on technique.  She's one of the most technically proficient players out there.  Universally acclaimed.  Any sound she's creating, I'd be pretty sure she's creating it on purpose. 

Agreed.

I don't like all of her performances and interpretations, but I thoroughly enjoy listening and watching her play, if for any other reason her technique.  Hahn is extremely gifted and from what I can tell, well-grounded.  I applaud her performance of a very difficult concerto sans accompaniment.  Playing any unaccompanied piece exposes something or another whether it be intonation, bow scratches, etc.  BUT--to play an unaccompanied piece that is usually played with the backdrop of a 80 piece symphony orchestra, that is really brave!

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9 hours ago, matesic said:

It's a piece for violin and orchestra. I therefore conclude that the orchestra is an integral part of the conception and public performance of the violin part alone is therefore musically gratuitous. Perhaps she really believes that hearing the solo part alone will be illuminating for the audience, but she must also presume that she can "carry the show" all by herself.

Masterclasses are more illuminating but also often self-aggrandizing to a greater or lesser degree. It's unnecessary and objectionable (at least to us blue-noses) for musicians, no matter how fine, to carry their egos to the fore.

 

21 hours ago, Carl Stross said:

2. That's her text and means nothing. She wanted to show off ( not the first time - she's got M5 as well somewhere ) and she did. 

 

By the way...for the critics here...or at least the overly critical...the following is posted from Ms. Hahn's own description of the youtube video and she CLEARLY states her reasons (and to be more clear, "her" text means a lot more than someone's guess at why she is doing this) for doing this as an educational experiment:

"While no concerto is just about the soloist, sometimes it helps to examine a single part in order to understand the whole. I find that hearing the violin part by itself not only highlights how complex it is on its own, but how the solo and orchestral parts support one another in ways that listeners might not be aware of. While each part can stand on its own as a nuanced piece of music, everything comes into focus when you hear the richness of the piece as a whole; their subtleties complement one another. I have been wanting to try this out as an experimental performance format for a long time. I finally got the opportunity during my residency at Radio France in May 2019, rehearsing an hour before a concert while a friend captured it on my phone. While we missed a few moments here and there, I hope that you’ll find this performance both educational and fun."

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31 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

By the way...for the critics here...or at least the overly critical...the following is posted from Ms. Hahn's own description of the youtube video and she CLEARLY states her reasons (and to be more clear, "her" text means a lot more than someone's guess at why she is doing this) for doing this as an educational experiment:

"While no concerto is just about the soloist, sometimes it helps to examine a single part in order to understand the whole. I find that hearing the violin part by itself not only highlights how complex it is on its own, but how the solo and orchestral parts support one another in ways that listeners might not be aware of. While each part can stand on its own as a nuanced piece of music, everything comes into focus when you hear the richness of the piece as a whole; their subtleties complement one another. I have been wanting to try this out as an experimental performance format for a long time. I finally got the opportunity during my residency at Radio France in May 2019, rehearsing an hour before a concert while a friend captured it on my phone. While we missed a few moments here and there, I hope that you’ll find this performance both educational and fun."

What's the meaning of that ???  It's HER text, HER impression(s), HER take on things, HER interest(s), HER reasons etc. . It is not my GUESS. There must've been some intent when she put it on YT. What on Earth does this mean : "While each part can stand on its own as a nuanced piece of music, everything comes into focus when you hear the richness of the piece as a whole; their subtleties complement one another." ?

And how many people can actually fuse the two together ? 

Myself and surely many others appreciate her integrity as a performer and all the colossal hard work behind it and wish her a long and distinguished career. We need more performers of such integrity, not less. But I think she should keep doing what she knows to do well and stay away from cheap publicity and philosophizing. In the end, what section of the public you want to speak to ?

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5 minutes ago, Carl Stross said:

What's the meaning of that ???  It's HER text, HER impression(s), HER take on things, HER interest(s), HER reasons etc. . It is not my GUESS. There must've been some intent when she put it on YT. What on Earth does this mean : "While each part can stand on its own as a nuanced piece of music, everything comes into focus when you hear the richness of the piece as a whole; their subtleties complement one another." ?

And how many people can actually fuse the two together ? 

Myself and surely many others appreciate her integrity as a performer and all the colossal hard work behind it and wish her a long and distinguished career. We need more performers of such integrity, not less. But I think she should keep doing what she knows to do well and stay away from cheap publicity and philosophizing. In the end, what section of the public you want to speak to ?

Wait. Wut? 

You said that she wanted to show off.  That is YOUR guess.  There is no reason to guess.  She stated that the performance was for educational purposes and to have fun.

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7 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

Wait. Wut? 

You said that she wanted to show off.  That is YOUR guess.  There is no reason to guess.  She stated that the performance was for educational purposes and to have fun.

Why put it on YT ? To show off.   

What she "stated" :)  is irrelevant. She tends to state rubbish like when she stated her Bach and Szeryng's Bach are somehow similar.

You've no hair to the amount of "statings" I heard from "classical performers", all rubbish. If you're a classical performer, then perform. That's the only statement needed.

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