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18th Century French? Violin ID


W.C.
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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

The ebay listing says that the case is french, not the violin

Not even this. It says the case is signed Emile Francais.:)

The photos don't allow to tell much in particular, as usual with this seller. And won't the thread more belong into the Auction Scroll?

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10 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

I think for anyone who does want an 18th century French violin, they would be better advised to visit a shop.

Of course. Like I said I am absolutely not interested in buying it. Just want to post it as an ID thread here for learning purposes :) I misread the description of the ebay listing and thought they claimed it French. But otherwise I don't have a reason for why this violin is French-related.

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2 hours ago, W.C. said:

Just want to post it as an ID thread here for learning purposes :) 

Ebay is not a suitable forum for “learning purposes”. On the contrary, once one spends hours scrolling down through pages and pages of shit and lies, one goes cross eyed, and will be unable to recognise a genuine violin if someone rubbed your nose on it. An analogy would be constant chamber music playing with people who play chronically out of tune. After a shorter time than you think, your own intonation will be grotty as hell.

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11 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Ebay is not a suitable forum for “learning purposes”. On the contrary, once one spends hours scrolling down through pages and pages of shit and lies, one goes cross eyed, and will be unable to recognise a genuine violin if someone rubbed your nose on it. An analogy would be constant chamber music playing with people who play chronically out of tune. After a shorter time than you think, your own intonation will be grotty as hell.

Thanks for the advice Jacob. I think you are right about this. I would have been lost already without the help of everyone on MN :). I have full access to the Cozio archive, but I use ebay as a practice. I love your analogy! It would be terrible if someone tries to learn from ebay, believing what those sellers are claiming  are true. I never assume they are correct, and most of the time I know what I am looking at. When in doubt, I'd come here or Cozio for advice. :P

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On 11/27/2020 at 9:14 PM, Garth E. said:

Jacob it does state in the "items specific" pays de fabrication-France. I assume that means "made in France"

But it's not clear if they meant case or violin (or the place where both were put together). Usually not many are reading this item specifics btw.

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

But it's not clear if they meant case or violin (or the place where both were put together). Usually not many are reading this item specifics btw.

It's a little vague. For what he is asking you'd think he would focus more on the violin and it's history. I find the case just a distraction.

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On 11/27/2020 at 12:17 AM, W.C. said:

A proclaimed 18th century French violin? Looks quite attractive to me. Any opinions? :)

It is from eBay, but I have no interest of buying it. Posting to pegbox as an ID only.

Nice old violin 18ème case french emile-fine old 18th century violin. | eBay

 

78.thumb.jpg.8eecc100bcd3a24611afb94dabf90a99.jpg80.thumb.jpg.683bae3cc2284a3f8eab1be537d4bef4.jpg79.thumb.jpg.aecc081fd59b342cb9fb35ceea270dd6.jpg82.thumb.jpg.4d4e7e8d1eddde2975e5440d0919b8a4.jpg83.thumb.jpg.ef7504cf432a59195f9affa2118ba2da.jpg84.thumb.jpg.a0fbcf48f9fb6b176414d0dfc2990b40.jpg85.thumb.jpg.eaa933bed7073fcf8d7437bbb2b7f2ac.jpg86.thumb.jpg.e80194af4d2e9b8d4a88fb5c365c86df.jpg87.thumb.jpg.7953eee784cefd144b35d19117dd6e38.jpg

From what I can see it's not French. Yelling 18th century Mittenwald to me. Quite a typical Mittenwald model represented by the general shape outline and those long, vertical F holes.

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The point is more that it just can't be judged by photos being over/underexposured, heavily processed and leaving everything of importance in shadows or unfocussed. Mittenwald and French outlines of the 18th/early 19th century can look very similar, also f-holes. A Mittenwald violin I would expect to have the purfing going longer to the end of the corners, but there are also exceptions. By which features one should be able to tell if the scroll belongs or doesn't by what's visible is also beyond my understanding, except guesswork.:)

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12 minutes ago, Blank face said:

The point is more that it just can't be judged by photos being over/underexposured, heavily processed and leaving everything of importance in shadows or unfocussed. Mittenwald and French outlines of the 18th/early 19th century can look very similar, also f-holes. A Mittenwald violin I would expect to have the purfing going longer to the end of the corners, but there are also exceptions. By which features one should be able to tell if the scroll belongs or doesn't by what's visible is also beyond my understanding, except guesswork.:)

Yes BF, thanks for clarifying that. Honestly these are terrible pictures for ID, and I shouldn't have replied with such resolution. However, I still maintain my humble opinion of it being a Mwald instead of French. :ph34r:

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