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Violin ID requested


jfield
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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I would presume that that is what colleagues in England call “caussin school” (i.e. modest French)

Actually, I thought it was Mittenwald, I can't really see what's happening  with C linings and blocks but for the rest, stylistically doesn't look French to me.  It's also got that original saddle, that you won't see in French of the period, but will in Mittenwald.

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Very confusing. The ebony (?) pins and the saddle made me think of Markneukirchen, the inside work (c-blocks of hardwood longer in the middle bouts, linings not inserted IMO) and one piece bottom rib looks like French mid 19th, or slightly later, the purfling going long through the middle of the corners not very French. The neck isn't elongated IMO, there's original varnish at the end. How long is the LOB?

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

Very confusing. The ebony (?) pins and the saddle made me think of Markneukirchen, the inside work (c-blocks of hardwood longer in the middle bouts, linings not inserted IMO) and one piece bottom rib looks like French mid 19th, or slightly later, the purfling going long through the middle of the corners not very French. The neck isn't elongated IMO, there's original varnish at the end. How long is the LOB?

Thank you for your observations!  I will be back the shop in the morning and will post LOB.

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49 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I think this is French and older than you would first assume - we had a Chappuy with exactly this varnish, certified by Rampal. It conforms to a very early type of French trade violin, probably Mirecourt ...

Thank you, Martin!  Would you suggest early to mid 19th century......or earlier????

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At least it's constructed with the "built on the back with preinstalled blocks" method, preceding the outside mould construction, so probably not much later than mid 19th. OTOH I would be surprised if it was made significantly earlier. The scroll has much in common with JTL or Laberte made things.

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

At least it's constructed with the "built on the back with preinstalled blocks" method, preceding the outside mould construction,

Hi Blank Face, can you expand on the "built on the back with preinstalled blocks" method a bit? The rib joins don't run down the center as I would expect with BOB. They look like outside mold rib joins to me.

8C18A260-5524-46AE-BAD1-82E2C5652629.jpeg

D3726098-E490-43BC-B787-5E15690BB9AF.jpeg

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Here's a Chappuy from the 1770s - obviously the f-holes are distinctly Chappuy and very different to the OP violin, but I think they are related, and not necessarily separated by more than 30 years. So the little filler piece in front of the neck root may in fact be a little filler piece in front of the neck root ...

 

5120chappuy-violin-back.thumb.jpg.d554ea8139eeb000ab4fdb0365b9f015.jpg5120chappuy-violin-front.thumb.jpg.0a26fba6b5c668c57e99033ac5e5b396.jpg

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1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

Hi Blank Face, can you expand on the "built on the back with preinstalled blocks" method a bit? The rib joins don't run down the center as I would expect with BOB. They look like outside mold rib joins to me.

With the "old French" method the rib joints look from outside similar mitred as with inside or outside mould; they weren't clamped together by the ends but glued to the block surfaces. Very often the corner blocks are longer in the C ribs and the linings either cut off or the tips glued over the blocks. The linked threads are showing some examples.

Outside mould is often recognized by a small gap inside of the joint (visible only when the box is opened, s. photo).

@martin swan: Though I see your point, I can find many close similarities between the Chappuy and the OP. Corners, bouts, shading of the varnish etc. are quite different, had it an original scroll? The ff OP look to me like any of the average Mirecourt/Caussin school ff. Unfortunately we don't have a total view of the belly. Reg. the neck, the OP could remove the fingerboard to see if there's an additional piece of wood glued to the neck end, though this could be also original and just there due to a too short neck log.B)

 

 

IMG_4825.JPG

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15 hours ago, Blank face said:

Very confusing. The ebony (?) pins and the saddle made me think of Markneukirchen, the inside work (c-blocks of hardwood longer in the middle bouts, linings not inserted IMO) and one piece bottom rib looks like French mid 19th, or slightly later, the purfling going long through the middle of the corners not very French. The neck isn't elongated IMO, there's original varnish at the end. How long is the LOB?

Concerning the LOB, it is 363 mm.

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15 hours ago, Blank face said:

Very confusing. The ebony (?) pins and the saddle made me think of Markneukirchen, the inside work (c-blocks of hardwood longer in the middle bouts, linings not inserted IMO) and one piece bottom rib looks like French mid 19th, or slightly later, the purfling going long through the middle of the corners not very French. The neck isn't elongated IMO, there's original varnish at the end. How long is the LOB?

Concerning the LOB, it is 363 mm.

70BF99FE-FAEE-461A-BD4A-6E647E643264.jpeg

B8BDDE9F-5450-4873-8E75-77DB8DF0C8F1.jpeg

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