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Gouge size question


MikeC
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16 hours ago, MikeC said:

David B.  When I look at back and belly plates,  not that I've seen any old Cremona up close in person,  but anyway they look remarkably similar.  I think the difference in shape could be due to string pressure rather than a difference in design.  What's your opinion? 

I think it's possible, or even likely, based on "creep" distortions I've observed over the years.

Let's put it this way: I don't know of any highly-experienced restorer or fiddle expert who thinks that the extremely saddle-back archings we've seen on the tops of some Strads were originally contoured that way. Instead, the consensus seems to be that they are due for another restoration.

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2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

1. Tops (even when they are very thick) can be bent quite a bit. ;)

https://helenviolinmaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Dartington-talk-transcript-with-pics.pdf

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/fulton-violin-plate-bending.281323/

2. To correct distortion due to sustained string load, combined with conditions of high humidity, temperature, or both. The ability to climate-control interior spaces is a relatively recent thing, and a lot of instrument owners still don't pay much attention to it, or make much of an effort. That's the main reason I've been trying to better educate people about this for several decades now. If relative humidity isn't allowed to go above 60%, distortion is greatly reduced.

1. which brand of fish kettle do you steam your Strad fronts in for 10 minutes? I really need to get a big wooden mallet to drive those wedges in too. (btw I am an admirer of Helens new making)

2. As before, there are plenty of historical violins in excellent condition without significant string load distortion, unless you're suggesting that they've all been secretly pressed out of their original shape?

3. Cozio writes about the difference in the shape of back and front archings at the beginning of the c19th. He would have been observing many great examples which still had their original heavy thicknesses and had only been played for a century under baroque string tensions.

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7 hours ago, plasterercaster said:

1. which brand of fish kettle do you steam your Strad fronts in for 10 minutes? I really need to get a big wooden mallet to drive those wedges in too. (btw I am an admirer of Helens new making)

2. As before, there are plenty of historical violins in excellent condition without significant string load distortion, unless you're suggesting that they've all been secretly pressed out of their original shape?

3. Cozio writes about the difference in the shape of back and front archings at the beginning of the c19th. He would have been observing many great examples which still had their original heavy thicknesses and had only been played for a century under baroque string tensions.

1. I was simply trying to provide examples of how far even thick spruce can be bent, in the fiddle pursuit. You may already know that when it comes to reshaping existing tops, one can apply a puddle of water to the inside, boil it by applying a hot iron (producing steam), and remove both the iron and the hot water before enough heat reaches the other side to compromise the varnish. If you don't, give it a try. :) But don't expect it to work out fabulously on the first try.

2. How would you know that there has been no significant string load distortion, unless you saw these violins when they were first made? Are you 200 to 400 years old or somethin? :o

3. Violins had already been around (and distorting) for at least 250 years, before Cozio came along.

 

If you would post under your real name,  or furnish a CV, I might be able to target my responses to your experience and training level a little better.

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1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

1. I was simply trying to provide examples of how far even thick spruce can be bent, in the fiddle pursuit. You may already know that when it comes to reshaping existing tops, one can apply a puddle of water to the inside, boil it by applying a hot iron (producing steam), and remove both the iron and the hot water before enough heat reaches the other side to compromise the varnish. If you don't, give it a try. :) But don't expect it to work out fabulously on the first try.

2. How would you know that there has been no significant string load distortion, unless you saw these violins when they were first made? Are you 200 to 400 years old or somethin? :o

3. Violins had already been around (and distorting) for at least 250 years, before Cozio came along.

 

If you would post under your real name,  or furnish a CV, I might be able to target my responses to your experience and training level a little better.

1.Thanks for the tip, but I think I will give that technique a miss. I already have a much safer method which works very well :)

2. No I'm not, unlike your restoration technique ;)

3. This conversation was based on some scans that were posted from Strad 3d, I presumed we were talking about Strad. If you want to start a thread on how Strad based his arching on a distorted Andrea Amati I think it could be interesting.

 Like I said before I have done a lot of major restoration work, many years of experience and high training level so please target your responses to that.  I don't think we are going to agree on this one, but I appreciate you responding and I enjoy discussing and learning.

 

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