Anyone in the us doing dendro tests on American wood

[Craig Cowing]

Here are some more pics that I couldn't download earlier.

The Klemm music store was using the description on this label in their Philadelphia city directory listings for 1829-1837 so I believe it is safe to say that it was in their store somewhere during that 8-9 year period. My guess is that the geared tuners were added at that time? Underneath there is some varnish which makes me think that originally this instrument had regular pegs.

as anyone importing inexpensive cellos to Philadelphia in the early 19th century? It may be that it has the style of an Austrian cello, and may possibly be made out of beech and otherwise bear markers of that area, but its presence in Philadelphia at that time must be reckoned with. If it were an inexpensive instrument surely nobody would take the trouble and expense to ship it here at that time.

Dimensions are: body length 28.5 "

upper bout: 12.5"

middle bout: 8.5"

lower bout: 15.25"

 

BTW the fingerboard is modern. I put it on at that length to reflect the period it comes from.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Burgess]

The back and ribs may be beech. I am not understanding an effort to describe it as sycamore, unless you are trying to sell it as something which it is not.

Anyway, I would describe it as a nightmare of a cello, for more than one reason.  And I give you my permission to quote that in your Ebay add.

[Craig Cowing]

8 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

The back and ribs may be beech. I am not understanding an effort to describe it as sycamore, unless you are trying to sell it as something which it is not.

Anyway, I would describe it as a nightmare of a cello.

I'm not trying to sell it, actually. I just think it looks like sycamore. If it is beech, that's ok too. I'm interested in knowing its history. That's it.

How is it a nightmare? I realize that it isn't new. It's had repairs, and it bears scars. Just because it isn't pristine although about 200 years old it doesn't have value in your eyes?

[jacobsaunders]

Thanks for the extra pictures. I would still remain with my ascription. I wouldn’t read much into your assumptions about 19^th C. logistics, they probably imported potatoes into Philadelphia too if they were hungry. The nearest I could find as “further reading” is a thread I posted about a cello from Goisern, although my cello was from the expensive end of the spectrum, and I would say yours were the opposite. Perhaps you can never the less find some similar features

 

 

[Craig Cowing]

21 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Thanks for the extra pictures. I would still remain with my ascription. I wouldn’t read much into your assumptions about 19^th C. logistics, they probably imported potatoes into Philadelphia too if they were hungry. The nearest I could find as “further reading” is a thread I posted about a cello from Goisern, although my cello was from the expensive end of the spectrum, and I would say yours were the opposite. Perhaps you can never the less find some similar features

 

 

 

Thanks. The scroll is somewhat similar.

I just discovered that the University of Delaware has the records for the Philadelphia Custom House for the entire 19th century, including ship manifests, etc. Lots of detailed documents. That may answer the question of whether anyone was importing instruments from Europe into Philadelphia. I'm going to see if I can find a way to get down there soon and not miss too much work when I come back. Right now Delaware is on our bad list.

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, Craig Cowing said:

I'm not trying to sell it, actually. I just think it looks like sycamore. If it is beech, that's ok too.

How is it a nightmare?

I will defer that question to those with more patience than I.

[Craig Cowing]

8 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I will defer the answer to those with more patience than I.

Well, I like it, I like the tone and the ease with which it can be played. If it turns out to be an inexpensive cello made of beech from central Europe, that's ok too. At least it's a 200 year old inexpensive cello. I'm sorry to have offended your sensibilities with this post.

 

[jacobsaunders]

41 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

  And I give you my permission to quote that in your Ebay add.

Is your generous offer open to everyone?

[Craig Cowing]

1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

And I give you my permission to quote that in your Ebay add.

I'm sorry but that is uncalled for.

Jacob's posts are fine. He offered his opinion that it is a low end cello made in Austria in the early 19th century. If that's indeed the case, I'm good with that. Making snotty comments about my trying to sell it for something it is not on eBay is uncalled for.

[David Burgess]

5 hours ago, Craig Cowing said:

I'm sorry but that is uncalled for.

Jacob's posts are fine. He offered his opinion that it is a low end cello made in Austria in the early 19th century. If that's indeed the case, I'm good with that. Making snotty comments about my trying to sell it for something it is not on eBay is uncalled for.

Hope you can eventually acquire a better sense of humor. 

Priggishly-languaged  and ill-informed attempts at dress-downs from people who know next-to-nothing have absolutely no affect on me. Why would they?

Yes, Jacob posts some good stuff. And has a good sense of humor. Wassa wrong wit choo?

[Ratcliffiddles]

Stylistically,  it looks like something from Salzkammergut area.  I have tested a few from that region, but not always had success dating the wood.  Beech would not be unusual for back, sides and scroll.

[jacobsaunders]

is this another one?

[Craig Cowing]

4 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

is this another one?

Great pic!

 

[Craig Cowing]

14 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Hope you can eventually acquire a better sense of humor. 

Priggishly-languaged  and ill-informed attempts at dress-downs from people who know next-to-nothing have absolutely no affect on me. Why would they?

Yes, Jacob posts some good stuff. And has a good sense of humor. Wassa wrong wit choo?

There is nothing wrong with me. I have a perfectly good sense of humor. I have impatience dealing with adults who have to resort to personal insults to make their point. If you can't post something that is useful then just don't.

[David Burgess]

2 minutes ago, Craig Cowing said:

Making snotty comments about my trying to sell it for something it is not on eBay is uncalled for. ....

....There is nothing wrong with me. I have impatience dealing with adults who have to resort to personal insults to make their point.

Very interesting! Got much hypocrisy goin' on?

[Fossil Ledges]

Not digging the repair label(s). It looks like a Markie in my shop that gets moved around every couple years because what it's going to cost to bring it back is not worth it. Nevertheless folks bring one or two a year and then get angry that they're not going to make a profit on it if they get the work done.

[Fossil Ledges]

Oh, and the sound is always (mature, rich and mellow). If you discount the rattles and buzzes.

[Craig Cowing]

2 minutes ago, Fossil Ledges said:

Oh, and the sound is always (mature, rich and mellow). If you discount the rattles and buzzes.

No rattles and buzzes. Sorry. 

[Craig Cowing]

20 minutes ago, Fossil Ledges said:

Not digging the repair label(s). It looks like a Markie in my shop that gets moved around every couple years because what it's going to cost to bring it back is not worth it. Nevertheless folks bring one or two a year and then get angry that they're not going to make a profit on it if they get the work done.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. The repair labels are what they are. If you don’t understand them then there is nothing I can do to help you. This cello is a keeper for me. Not for sale. NFS. I’m not trying to invent a past so I can sell it. Get it? Why is a simple request for info turning into a pissing match?

[Wood Butcher]

5 hours ago, Craig Cowing said:

This cello is a keeper for me. Not for sale. NFS. I’m not trying to invent a past so I can sell it. Get it? Why is a simple request for info turning into a pissing match?

Unfortunately, most threads descend into this, once the information is out of the way. I hope you can enjoy your cello, it looks like many other people have done so before you.

[Craig Cowing]

3 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Unfortunately, most threads descend into this, once the information is out of the way. I hope you can enjoy your cello, it looks like many other people have done so before you.

Thank you. 

[Fossil Ledges]

On 11/8/2020 at 3:57 AM, Wood Butcher said:

Unfortunately, most threads descend into this, once the information is out of the way. I hope you can enjoy your cello, it looks like many other people have done so before you.

Thanks, very kind reply!

[Craig Cowing]

On 11/7/2020 at 2:16 PM, jacobsaunders said:

Ischl and Goisern are in the Salzkammergut, between Salzburg and Linz in Austria. Not Bohemia. The use of beech would also be consistent with cheaper work from there, as is the lack of purfling. If so, I would guess the age as early 19^th C.

The Klemm brothers were importing instruments from the Empire as early as 1818. They had cellos that had "patent brass screws" (ie  geared tuners) as early as 1818 so this would fit with your estimate of age.