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Italian Violin


bsharma8
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21 hours ago, bsharma8 said:

Was at dealer and expressed interest in this violin. Can anyone tell me anything about it? Dealer sent me the pics. Luigi Bertelli 1950. Has a poplar back. Not sure how that affects value.

 

A quick google shows that not much is known about the maker, but I guess you already did that.

And the problem with a little known maker is that there is not much to compare with, making it more difficult to decide if it is genuine.

With regards to the poplar back people feel more comfortable with what they know, but the violin looks nice, and I guess it comes down to price.

 

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2 hours ago, Delabo said:

A quick google shows that not much is known about the maker, but I guess you already did that.

 

 

A quick google won't tell you anything much about anything, and what it will tell you is not worth knowing ...

Luigi Bertelli was a professional maker, and father to the rather better known Enzo Bertelli. The entry in Vannes included in the OP's picture tells you a good deal.

I don't know this maker personally. While the edgework and the scroll (and the poplar back) look Italian, I find the f-holes pretty crude (particularly the lower tongues) and I'm disconcerted by the bump in the arching just outside the lower portion of the f-holes, which I would associate with a rapidly made trade instrument.

But hey, a lot of Italian violins are pretty rubbish and still people must have them in preference to far better non-Italian instruments.

 

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Hi.

I own a Luigi Bertelli ( grandfather), and it is exactly like the this.

It has been certified by his grandson, whose name is also Luigi Bertelli ( the son of Enzo), and is one of the greatest vioin makers in Brazil.

The only difference is that mine has a maple back.

Varnish is characteristic.

Dani

 

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14 minutes ago, martin swan said:

A quick google won't tell you anything much about anything, and what it will tell you is not worth knowing ...

It did tell me to be cautious as there are violins out there with this label that are probably German according to this dealer.............

https://www.jrjuddviolins.com/product/early-mid-20th-century-currently-out-on-trial/

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31 minutes ago, Dani Tsui said:

Hi.

I own a Luigi Bertelli ( grandfather), and it is exactly like the this.

It has been certified by his grandson, whose name is also Luigi Bertelli ( the son of Enzo), and is one of the greatest vioin makers in Brazil.

The only difference is that mine has a maple back.

Varnish is characteristic.

Dani

 

Hi Dani!

Do you have photos of your violin? It would be great to get a bit more familiar with this maker.

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

 

But hey, a lot of Italian violins are pretty rubbish and still people must have them in preference to far better non-Italian instruments.

 

I too thought it looked a bit like a talented autodidact, who didn’t take (or get) much critisism, and thought if Segnor Bertelli had been called Grubmüller, and worked in Papenhaltenhausen on the Danube, it would be in an Amati auction with a starting price of ten quid.

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3 hours ago, Delabo said:

A quick google shows that not much is known about the maker, but I guess you already did that.

And the problem with a little known maker is that there is not much to compare with, making it more difficult to decide if it is genuine.

With regards to the poplar back people feel more comfortable with what they know, but the violin looks nice, and I guess it comes down to price.

 

Yeah not much info, price was exactly mid 4 figures, probably negotiable.

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1 hour ago, Dani Tsui said:

Hi.

I own a Luigi Bertelli ( grandfather), and it is exactly like the this.

It has been certified by his grandson, whose name is also Luigi Bertelli ( the son of Enzo), and is one of the greatest vioin makers in Brazil.

The only difference is that mine has a maple back.

Varnish is characteristic.

Dani

 

Thanks Dani, I reached out to Luigi as well.

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

A quick google won't tell you anything much about anything, and what it will tell you is not worth knowing ...

Luigi Bertelli was a professional maker, and father to the rather better known Enzo Bertelli. The entry in Vannes included in the OP's picture tells you a good deal.

I don't know this maker personally. While the edgework and the scroll (and the poplar back) look Italian, I find the f-holes pretty crude (particularly the lower tongues) and I'm disconcerted by the bump in the arching just outside the lower portion of the f-holes, which I would associate with a rapidly made trade instrument.

But hey, a lot of Italian violins are pretty rubbish and still people must have them in preference to far better non-Italian instruments.

 

Thanks Martin, my thought are if he won this competition in 1956, and this was made in 1950, mustve been one of his earlier tries at it. I think I'd pass, but was surprised to find 20th century italian at that price point. 

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1 hour ago, Delabo said:

It did tell me to be cautious as there are violins out there with this label that are probably German according to this dealer.............

https://www.jrjuddviolins.com/product/early-mid-20th-century-currently-out-on-trial/

There have been fakes which have been confirmed by his grandson according to @MANFIO

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Just now, martin swan said:

An authentic Bertelli would surely be over $20k. Maybe this is your pot of gold ... or maybe not!

even with the imperfect F holes and arching? I figured the poplar back wouldve lowered the value since its not too favorable with many violinists. I believe the violin was part of an estate auction. I was quoted $5K. Now I am intrigued...

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2 minutes ago, bsharma8 said:

even with the imperfect F holes and arching? I figured the poplar back wouldve lowered the value since its not too favorable with many violinists. I believe the violin was part of an estate auction. I was quoted $5K. Now I am intrigued...

You're not really listening ...

A poplar back would not be a factor in valuation but is this really the work of a mainstream professional maker? And what would a regular dealer be doing selling an authentic one for $5k when they could make 5 times that? I don't suppose it has any kind of certificate?

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2 minutes ago, martin swan said:

You're not really listening ...

A poplar back would not be a factor in valuation but is this really the work of a mainstream professional maker? And what would a regular dealer be doing selling an authentic one for $5k when they could make 5 times that? I don't suppose it has any kind of certificate?

No certificate, dealer is probably one of the most qualified ppl I'd trust here so unless he actually doesn't know, its interesting. 

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