E.H. Roth Violin

[bsharma8]

So today just randomly browsing craigslist, I came across a mid 20s E.H. Roth. After casually inquiring about it, I was told 20k, which seemed a bit higher from what I've seen them going retail more so 8-14k. I was told this was due to the plates being thinner since it was made for the European market and that the American ones was thicker. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Also was told it was one owner who played in the Brooklyn Philharmonic in 1930.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

Run, don't stop for coffee!!

[Violadamore]

8 hours ago, bsharma8 said:

So today just randomly browsing craigslist, I came across a mid 20s E.H. Roth. After casually inquiring about it, I was told 20k, which seemed a bit higher from what I've seen them going retail more so 8-14k. I was told this was due to the plates being thinner since it was made for the European market and that the American ones was thicker. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Also was told it was one owner who played in the Brooklyn Philharmonic in 1930.

Found it, I suppose you texted them.  https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/msg/d/new-york-violin-rare-one-owner-1925/7220335361.html

IMHO, whether the violin is actually a Roth or not, the price asked is way above market.  Checking the Brompton's list of 196 E.H. Roth violins auctioned between 1993 and 2017 shows only one sale of over $10K at $10,200, the other 195, taken together, suggest an average around $3500.  The inference should be obvious. 

I've never seen the claim about different thicknesses before, and I've read a lot of seller's claims. 

For a budget of $20K, you can do much better than a Roth.  Why don't you PM some of the more obviously successful dealers among the MN membership, and see what they have to offer? 

[bsharma8]

1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

Found it, I suppose you texted them.  https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/msg/d/new-york-violin-rare-one-owner-1925/7220335361.html

IMHO, whether the violin is actually a Roth or not, the price asked is way above market.  Checking the Brompton's list of 196 E.H. Roth violins auctioned between 1993 and 2017 shows only one sale of over $10K at $10,200, the other 195, taken together, suggest an average around $3500.  The inference should be obvious. 

I've never seen the claim about different thicknesses before, and I've read a lot of seller's claims. 

For a budget of $20K, you can do much better than a Roth.  Why don't you PM some of the more obviously successful dealers among the MN membership, and see what they have to offer? 

Haha thanks, I wasn't looking to buy, just so more. surprised to see it on Craigslist and then had a good laugh at the different thickness thing and the price. 

[TJ Fuss]

I liked this part: "...who was the only original owner."

 

 Wouldn't there only ever be just one "original owner" ?

[deans]

I've heard the claim that Roth's that were shipped to the US were left on the thick side to survive the trip, and the ones I've owned did seem thick, but I never actually measured. 

Tarisio sold one for over $19K last year. Fred Oster has one listed in his shop at $18.5K, which is supposedly pictured in the Babbitt book. If you wanted a top shelf Roth that's were I would go, not Craigslist.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

Weren't all Roths being shipped to USA, Jacob says you don't see them in Europe, except for UK maybe.

[PhilipKT]

For 20K, you’d expect to see a lot of photos and not just one.

[martin swan]

6 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Weren't all Roths being shipped to USA, Jacob says you don't see them in Europe, except for UK maybe.

EH Roths are common in Germany and in the UK

[jacobsaunders]

I've had two in the 35 years I've spent in Austria

[martin swan]

Maybe they are unpopular in Austria? In the old Ebay days I used to buy them from Germany and the former Czechoslovakia.

 

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

Maybe they are unpopular in Austria? In the old Ebay days I used to buy them from Germany and the former Czechoslovakia.

 

Probably you’ve bought all existing over here.

There might be some truth within the assumption that they were produced for and sold in the export to the main part, as well as similar brands like Micellis etc. There wasn’t much of a domestic market for such products here, probably in the main due to the fact that most of the people hadn’t the money to pay the price during the depression.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

What about the other brand names Roth used like Oscar Meinel etc, do you see any of them in Europe??

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

What about the other brand names Roth used like Oscar Meinel etc, do you see any of them in Europe??

Like I wrote above, sometimes an example pops up, but not very often. I guess that a, let's say, good K.A. Gütter from the period is just as good or better, but was available for a fraction of the price.

[Dave Slight]

4 hours ago, martin swan said:

EH Roths are common in Germany and in the UK

Not around this area. I’ve only seen one in twenty five years.

[martin swan]

There is one and sometimes two in every round of the London auctions ...

[Blank face]

3 minutes ago, martin swan said:

There is one and sometimes two in every round of the London auctions ...

Maybe always the same two examples?

[martin swan]

Haha!

You can check the auction records, they really do crop up frequently, though admittedly the auction results show a lot more in the US. 

[Blank face]

In fact the few pre-war I saw in the 00er years sold for a few thousands here, untill they discovered that Anglo-Americans paid a multiple for them.

[martin swan]

Yes they have all certainly been gravitating towards the US recently!

I spoke with a violin hunter colleague of mine in Germany, he also attests to these violins being very plentiful in Germany. We discussed the Enrico Robella label and whether that might be specifically American, but the only examples either of us had bought came from Germany too ... 

Oscar Meinel may be a US label ... never seen one this side of the pond.

 

[Blank face]

3 hours ago, martin swan said:

Oscar Meinel may be a US label ... never seen one this side of the pond.

I once saw an Oscar Meinel at a flea market here. It was a real one, but I wasn't so impressed that I bought it for the (impressive) sum they were asking for it.

[violinsRus]

On 10/26/2020 at 12:52 AM, bsharma8 said:

So today just randomly browsing craigslist, I came across a mid 20s E.H. Roth.

Looks to me like a single stock photo of the front, I am suspicious even before considering the price.  BTW, the same list appears in other online venues.