Rib Taper hypothesis #43,759


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 452
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

2 minutes ago, David Beard said:

Didn't mean to say your illustration is wrong in any sense. Not at all.

But, it is a different thing than 'liberty at margins'.

 

Is 'the earth isn't flat' also politics?  We are busy here discussing what is or isn't true and how we get to know.

Okay, 'liberty at the perimeters'.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bruce Carlson said:

Most balance points on bellies of Stradivari violins will fall within the area so marked. Of course this takes into account ' liberty of the margins'.

1428971646_Balancepoint.jpg.4ce6d9b2696ed3a4301399f7cc00ef6e.jpg

 

Thank you for the clarification. This illustration helps. But my thinking was from a current maker's perspective. Surely things change when all comes together but when gluing up tapered, contoured or non tapered ribs.

Where I was unclear in the reply/ concept, is that prior to gluing up an instrument would most modern makers think about the point beneath the bridge feet to be a good target for a balance point? 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, GoPractice said:

Thank you for the clarification. This illustration helps. But my thinking was from a current maker's perspective. Surely things change when all comes together but when gluing up tapered, contoured or non tapered ribs.

Where I was unclear in the reply/ concept, is that prior to gluing up an instrument would most modern makers think about the point beneath the bridge feet to be a good target for a balance point? 

By that time I would say it's probably too late. How would you shift the balance point? One more factor added to edge thicknesses and graduations!

Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, for a while I worked with balance points. I was never willing to do the grads necessary to make the balance point at the bridge--it would require something relatively extreme and unconventional in the context of normal violin making. There were some other interesting points about balance, however, that I messed with and didn't get results that were different enough to integrate into my work. For instance, it's easy to make a top that balances at the inverse position of the pin in the back, and for a while I thought maybe that could be a magical thing. But no. In the end, I think there are things that matter, but not always in the simply obvious ways.

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, David Beard said:

Didn't mean to say your illustration is wrong in any sense. Not at all.

But, it is a different thing than 'liberty at margins'.

 

Is 'the earth isn't flat' also politics?  We are busy here discussing what is or isn't true and how we get to know.

I thought you were somebody letting his creativity run free but it turns out you're all about central planning :)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Didn't we have a guy here a while back who insisted that the vibrational frequency of the universe was either 430 or 435 HZ (I don't remember which), so that was the only "correct" tuning for a violin A ? :)

432 hz was his preference.  

I have a tuner that will go to 433 hz for the lowest setting.  I realize I'm just so ever slightly above his 432 hz when I start playing but after awhile tuning works it's way down towards 432 sometimes - some days he's more than likely venturing downwards towards 431.

All I've found so far with lower tunings -  it's easier on the ears, strings and fiddle components all the while sacrificing the potential of the fiddle. 

Nature, other than humans, still doesn't care for the sound of a violin no matter the hz tuning but it is still man before beast - the others will get used to it eventually.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Was the little hole in the center region of some Old Italian back plates close to their balance points?

 

I wish more was published about those holes.  As I understand it they are a bit above the bridge lines and generally correspond to the maximal point of plate thickness for the backs.

But my info is only hearsay on this point.

 

The balance point thing seems spurious to me.  Every plate will automatically have a balance point.  And it will automatically be in the broad region Bruce points to.  I do not see that this balance point automatically carries any meaning.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bruce Carlson said:

In my experience no. At that point the plate is bottom heavy.

I wonder if the central pin was a method of identification?

If someone brought a violin with an Amati label to the workshop  could the Master use a magnet as a quick test to find out if it was made there?

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, sospiri said:

I wonder if the central pin was a method of identification?

If someone brought a violin with an Amati label to the workshop  could the Master use a magnet as a quick test to find out if it was made there?

What would the magnet be attracted to ?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, sospiri said:

The central pin.

There were lots of violins made with fake Amati labels. But they didn't have the central pin.

So it seems to me to be reasonable to ask if maybe it was for identification purposes?

The central pin is a conical hole, larger on the inside of the back. Sometimes the very tip of the conical hole comes through to the outside and you can see it. Sometimes it is an empty hole or just filled with dirt and crud. Other times it is plugged with wood.

It is a distinguishing mark on Amati school instruments starting with Andrea, mostly with the exception of the Ruggeri family, the Stradivari family. The Guarneri family used it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, sospiri said:

There are websites and YouTube channels devoted to the mystic frequency of whatever.

My Cremona shapes hypothesis is that they were aiming for voluptuousness in their curves.

Sexy curves. I defy anyone to naysay.

Well of course sexy curves.  

sexy curves.PNG

sexy curves 2.PNG

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, David Beard said:

Please, let's not rehash the silly 432 nonsense.  It's a bit of philosophic/political BS springing from a cult in the 1960s.  Fashionable in recent years in spa culture and new age tone healing.  It's worthless nonsense for musicians.

Very true. Concert pitch in times gone by was quite arbitrary. 

I also wonder what people think they mean when they attribute mystic meaning to certain keys; "the dark key of G minor" ....what is that supposed to mean?

Any mood is implied in the composition and the playing. And it's all an acquired taste anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Bruce Carlson said:

The central pin is a conical hole, larger on the inside of the back. Sometimes the very tip of the conical hole comes through to the outside and you can see it. Sometimes it is an empty hole or just filled with dirt and crud. Other times it is plugged with wood.

It is a distinguishing mark on Amati school instruments starting with Andrea, mostly with the exception of the Ruggeri family, the Stradivari family. The Guarneri family used it.

Wasn't there a metal pin in the hole, but they have all fallen out and been lost.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.