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Ted_B

Can you turn a trade violin into a pro-quality instrument?

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1 hour ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

What's lacking in Chinese instruments is not the mechanical competency of the workmen, but rather the soul of the instrument, which is sorely lacking.

Perhaps the soul of the instrument is no more than the sum of it's owner's prejudices  ...:lol:

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5 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

What's lacking in Chinese instruments is not the mechanical competency of the workmen, but rather the soul of the instrument, which is sorely lacking.

When individuality, (as in "soul' or "character") means that the tool marks and other foulups made it past QC, it is not always a good thing.  In some cases, an individual's character is merely the sum of their sins.  :lol:

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Maybe it's just my personal experience (and I'm posting virtue and lack a sense of humour), but everytime when I heard "soul" in regards of a violin, someone was talking about a bad one. Also the soul of a car seems to describe that it's making a lot of noise and bad air.

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Of course an object can have "soul".

Its common to hear the phrase "he put his whole soul into it".

In the case of a master violin made by just one person, the maker is trying with each successive violin to make a better one than the last, pouring his soul into it,hence the interest in old Italian violins because you sense the character and soul of the person who made it when looking at it closely.

Of course its possible that a luthier was just doing it for the money, and while working was thinking about the weekend and going around the local inns, but that's life.

A factory made thing is just that, a thing to make money for the owner of the factory.

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15 minutes ago, Delabo said:

A factory made thing is just that, a thing to make money for the owner of the factory.

In the Stentor factory China, you have to be very very good at carving, otherwise they won't employ you.

To be very very good at carving, you really have to put your soul into it.

And then there's the smaller workshops who turn out the even better stuff.

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26 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Its common to hear the phrase "he put his whole soul into it".

One can hear a lot of folk expressions and conceptions, also that Strad and Stainer walked in the forests with a silver hammer, but this doesn't imply that there is any reality behind them, maybe except in a metaphorical sense.

It's more common reality to see an ugly looking, badly repaired and weakly sounding violin, but hear an owner or seller claiming "It's all of this, but it has soul".

I opened some hundreds of violins or even more, put them into pieces and together again without finding any soul, rather great artistry and good craftpersonship sometimes. But maybe the devil had stolen them all, that's what he's usually doing.

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18 minutes ago, Blank face said:

One can hear a lot of folk expressions and conceptions, also that Strad and Stainer walked in the forests with a silver hammer, but this doesn't imply that there is any reality behind them, maybe except in a metaphorical sense.

It's more common reality to see an ugly looking, badly repaired and weakly sounding violin, but hear an owner or seller claiming "It's all of this, but it has soul".

I opened some hundreds of violins or even more, put them into pieces and together again without finding any soul, rather great artistry and good craftpersonship sometimes. But maybe the devil had stolen them all, that's what he's usually doing.

Which brings us full circle. The notion that the wood used in the Marknukirchen area was in any general way inferior to a “pro-quality” (whatever thaty means) violin is erroneous

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11 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Which brings us full circle. The notion that the wood used in the Marknukirchen area was in any general way inferior to a “pro-quality” (whatever thaty means) violin is erroneous

Which brings us full circle to the question: what is good and bad wood for intsrument making?

 

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35 minutes ago, Blank face said:

One can hear a lot of folk expressions and conceptions, also that Strad and Stainer walked in the forests with a silver hammer, but this doesn't imply that there is any reality behind them, maybe except in a metaphorical sense.

 

It was a gold hammer.

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12 hours ago, David Burgess said:

 I also dance as badly to pop music as some Chinese people do, despite having graduated from a disco dance class at the local YMCA sometime in the 70's or 80's. :lol:

We need video evidence of this.

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5 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Oh, all right, as long as you will keep it private.

 

Bad dancer2.gif

That's impressive. How long can you keep it up?

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2 hours ago, Blank face said:

One can hear a lot of folk expressions and conceptions, also that Strad and Stainer walked in the forests with a silver hammer, but this doesn't imply that there is any reality behind them, maybe except in a metaphorical sense.

It's more common reality to see an ugly looking, badly repaired and weakly sounding violin, but hear an owner or seller claiming "It's all of this, but it has soul".

I opened some hundreds of violins or even more, put them into pieces and together again without finding any soul, rather great artistry and good craftpersonship sometimes. But maybe the devil had stolen them all, that's what he's usually doing.

Dictionary def of "soul":

"emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance."

Many  people can make a workmanlike violin which does its job, but a person who was fortunate to have been born with the gift of artistry will make both a violin that does its job and then some........

Think "Del Gesu".

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56 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Dictionary def of "soul":

"emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance."

Many  people can make a workmanlike violin which does its job, but a person who was fortunate to have been born with the gift of artistry will make both a violin that does its job and then some........

Think "Del Gesu".

Exactly what I would call the defintion of a folk conception, yes. "and then some" hundred years of myths, telltales and silver hammers (gold if somebody might preferB)).

OTOH I don't really see what Del Gesu has to do within a comparison of old German and new Chinese trade instruments.:huh:

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6 hours ago, sospiri said:

Which brings us full circle to the question: what is good and bad wood for intsrument making?

 

no it doesen't

6 hours ago, sospiri said:

It was a gold hammer.

You are not even well read in the 19th C violin folklore, but still have the urge to dispense your flatulence

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6 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

no it doesen't

You are not even well read in the 19th C violin folklore, but still have the urge to dispense your flatulence

It was a joke. It was meant to be stupid. You know, to break the ice, make you both cheer up a bit.

Anyway  the question; what is good wood still remains. 

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10 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Use your hammer.

I thought they used a bow to "play" the trees. After all, the violin is not a percussion instrument (except in the hands of angry wives, or in a desperate home defense situation). ;)

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6 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I thought they used a bow to "play" the trees. After all, the violin is not a percussion instrument (except in the hands of angry wives, or in a desperate home defense situation). ;)

I keep a cello, for emergencies.  :ph34r:

EndpinThrust01.jpg.716ef74dc387d6ca0ef26b16c4356f7b.jpg

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3 hours ago, David Burgess said:

After all, the violin is not a percussion instrument (except in the hands of angry wives, or in a desperate home defense situation).

Sure it is! ;)

 

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