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Jeff White

Questions about terminology in "l'Archet"

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I'm going through "L'Archet" (Raffin/Millant)and comparing to pics from auctions (w/cert's) to educate.  Anyway, there is some terminology I"m not getting. In vol II, pg478 under Characteristics of the Button, it states:

The 3 piece buttons generally have an octagonal back ring. 

What else would it have? Or, are they talking about a collar on the back of the outside ring??  The back ring on the buttons looks similar to all others that I have seen.  What am i misunderstanding in the terminology?

Also, when talking about the collars:

-the second slanted on the back

Do they mean that the second collar angles into the first ring, thereby removing material away from the high points of the facets (little bevels)? As opposed to using a cutter that didn't dig into that 1st collar?

Another question: https://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/lot/?csid=2199289856&cpid=3679469568 

this link to the recent London Tarisio auction has a Cuniot-Hury selling for 6000, after  premium.  Seems like a lot.  I read that Ouchard Pere stamped some of his bows with Cuniot-Hury, but the Raffin cert doesn't say this.  Is this just 2 non dealer buyers wanting the bow real bad, or is this something else?

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1 hour ago, Jeff White said:

...The 3 piece buttons generally have an octagonal back ring. ...

This could mean the the back ring, which I assume is the outer one, is octagonal on the inside, rather than round.

But, now that you've brought the subject up, I also have a question about L'Archet:

A typical maker's has a statement like, for example, "Auguste Husson worked among others for E. Corvisier."

To me, this is ambiguous.  Does this mean that Husson was one of several who worked for Corvisier, or does it mean that Corvisier was one of several who Husson worked for?  Perhaps it is a translation problem and the meaning is clear in the French text.

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Yes, "octagonal rings" is the translation for "viroles martelées," literally hammered rings, meaning a flat strip was formed around an octagonal mandrel as opposed to a round tube filed down on the outside, so one sees the "inside" as octagonal as well as the "outside."

I haven't found an example of "the second slanted back," so if you tell me which maker you were looking at, I'll compare it to the French text.

"Among others" means he worked for or supplied bows to other shops besides the one(s) mentioned.

 

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12 hours ago, Jeff White said:

 

Another question: https://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/lot/?csid=2199289856&cpid=3679469568 

this link to the recent London Tarisio auction has a Cuniot-Hury selling for 6000, after  premium.  Seems like a lot.  I read that Ouchard Pere stamped some of his bows with Cuniot-Hury, but the Raffin cert doesn't say this.  Is this just 2 non dealer buyers wanting the bow real bad, or is this something else?

Yes it's a retail price - but the bow was in fantastic condition and played unusually well.

Even if it was made by EF Ouchard (which I would question) its still a lot. I assume 2 retail buyers thrashing it out ...

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8 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

Yes, "octagonal rings" is the translation for "viroles martelées," literally hammered rings, meaning a flat strip was formed around an octagonal mandrel as opposed to a round tube filed down on the outside, so one sees the "inside" as octagonal as well as the "outside."

That would be my interpretation as well.

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On 10/19/2020 at 10:25 PM, Michael Appleman said:

Yes, "octagonal rings" is the translation for "viroles martelées," literally hammered rings, meaning a flat strip was formed around an octagonal mandrel as opposed to a round tube filed down on the outside, so one sees the "inside" as octagonal as well as the "outside."

I haven't found an example of "the second slanted back," so if you tell me which maker you were looking at, I'll compare it to the French text.

"Among others" means he worked for or supplied bows to other shops besides the one(s) mentioned.

 

C.N. Bazin II (pg 478 of vol II).

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8 hours ago, Jeff White said:

C.N. Bazin II (pg 478 of vol II).

Interesting! The French version says exactly the same thing, literally, so no linguistic insight I can contribute. It seems to be a fairly rare description, since looking at other members of the Bazin family, and randomly through other makers, I haven't found any other buttons described this way. I take it to describe the way the second cut sometimes lops off the front of the octagon corners on Charles Nicolas II's buttons.

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