Lucky Buy?

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

I still want to know what “Reliefe” means in this context?

and I can’t WAIT to hear Jacob’s answer..l

You won't be so thrilled and eager after the "Wise Old Owl" has relieved himself on you a few times.  You'll learn to bring an umbrella to these discussions, and stay well back from the tree he roosts in.   

It's a slight axial curvature planed into the fingerboard upper surface, and on violins is more usually called "scoop".   https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/346125-fingerboard-scoop/

 

[Bodacious Cowboy]

46 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I still want to know what “Reliefe” means in this context?

and I can’t WAIT to hear Jacob’s answer..l

Presumably something that's achieved in a "brick shithouse" (TM)

[BassClef]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:41 AM, jacobsaunders said:

The arching was largely constrained by the arching blank (Fräsling) from the Thau milling machine (or later models). I have a stack of these in my workshop, and to get that arching out of it would be easy

Getting the arching out might be easy, but getting out of Archieri's is even easier. He knows Italian violins but not as much German/Austrian ones. He looked at my grandfather's genuine Viennese with a correct label and said it's a fake label and is a "Bohemian" violin. His son, however, was more astute and told me it could very well be legit.

[PhilipKT]

2 hours ago, Violadamore said:

You won't be so thrilled and eager after the "Wise Old Owl" has relieved himself on you a few times.  You'll learn to bring an umbrella to these discussions, and stay well back from the tree he roosts in.   

It's a slight axial curvature planed into the fingerboard upper surface, and on violins is more usually called "scoop".   https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/346125-fingerboard-scoop/

 

“Scoop” I know. Cellos have them as well.

thank you dear. And remember, I will always share my umbrella!

[martin swan]

10 hours ago, sospiri said:

The fingerboard has a natural bow shape. How much is ideal for each player?

 

The rule of thumb that I was shown is to hold down the string against the board at the end nearest the bridge. The amount of relief/scoop should be the same as the thickness of the string ... ie. more on the G than on the E. Of course when you're actually creating the scoop you need to use a straight edge rather than a string!

There's a lot of debate about whether the centre of the scoop should be halfway up the board or not - my observation is that if the scoop is centred about 2/5 of the way up the board you can get away with a bit less of it, which makes the board feel "racier" and easier for fast string crossing.

I have always used a block plane to get the board straight, and then used a small cabinet scraper with a heavy burr to create the scoop. I find it more controllable and better for "targeting" the area of scoop.

[sospiri]

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

The rule of thumb that I was shown is to hold down the string against the board at the end nearest the bridge. The amount of relief/scoop should be the same as the thickness of the string ... ie. more on the G than on the E. Of course when you're actually creating the scoop you need to use a straight edge rather than a string!

There's a lot of debate about whether the centre of the scoop should be halfway up the board or not - my observation is that if the scoop is centred about 2/5 of the way up the board you can get away with a bit less of it, which makes the board feel "racier" and easier for fast string crossing.

I have always used a block plane to get the board straight, and then used a small cabinet scraper with a heavy burr to create the scoop. I find it more controllable and better for "targeting" the area of scoop.

Thanks that makes a lot of sense. I have had trouble trying to explain the scoop to some people, including guitarists who just don't believe me and don't seem to want to accept an explanation of how strings vibrate.

Another issue is the natural bow of the neck/fingerboard due to string tension and time/moisture cycles. How should we address this issue?

 

 

[martin swan]

58 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Thanks that makes a lot of sense. I have had trouble trying to explain the scoop to some people, including guitarists who just don't believe me and don't seem to want to accept an explanation of how strings vibrate.

Another issue is the natural bow of the neck/fingerboard due to string tension and time/moisture cycles. How should we address this issue?

 

 

It's interesting that more and more makers are experimenting with neck reinforcement, even truss rods in cellos.

Generally a fingerboard of normal thickness will stabilize a neck, but if it's too thin or poor quality it can fail to do that job. 

Nowadays, minor elevation corrections are being done by taking off the fingerboard, bending the neck, taking a plane to it to flatten the new surface and then replacing the fingerboard. If this is going to become the norm, then all new violins should be made with a bit of a platform for the fingerboard.

[Bodacious Cowboy]

2 hours ago, martin swan said:

 

I have always used a block plane to get the board straight, and then used a small cabinet scraper with a heavy burr to create the scoop. I find it more controllable and better for "targeting" the area of scoop.

The little Lie Nielsen "violin maker's plane" works very well for this also.

 

[Jwillis]

2 hours ago, martin swan said:

There's a lot of debate about whether the centre of the scoop should be halfway up the board or not - my observation is that if the scoop is centred about 2/5 of the way up the board you can get away with a bit less of it, which makes the board feel "racier" and easier for fast string crossing.

Really good information!  Scoop has always been mysterious to me. 

[martin swan]

4 minutes ago, Jwillis said:

Really good information!  Scoop has always been mysterious to me. 

I'm not sure everyone agrees on this stuff - I think we once had about 5 pages of argument on "scoop" ... I was amazed at how many well thought out positions there were. leading to different practices

[PaganiniVuillaume]

Okay ya filthy animals, here are some better pictures after I got it back from the luthiers. I am getting an appraisal of $5,000. Total work cost about 650. So total spent about $800. Now took 2 bows for trial. A modern German copy of H.R Pfretzschner and a Nurnberger. 

LET THE GAMES BEGIN. Also I appreciate everyone for taking the time to give their input. Being newish to the site, I felt welcomed!

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, bsharma8 said:

Okay ya filthy animals, here are some better pictures after I got it back from the luthiers. I am getting an appraisal of $5,000. Total work cost about 650. So total spent about $800. Now took 2 bows for trial. A modern German copy of H.R Pfretzschner and a Nurnberger. 

LET THE GAMES BEGIN. Also I appreciate everyone for taking the time to give their input. Being newish to the site, I felt welcomed!

 

So how does it sound? 

[PaganiniVuillaume]

6 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

So how does it sound? 

I like it, will probably go back for an SP adjustment since I had to run, but with the Nurnberger, it's a gamechanger for me. 

[Violadamore]

Just now, bsharma8 said:

I like it, will probably go back for an SP adjustment since I had to run, but with the Nurnberger, it's a gamechanger for me. 

Great!  Congratulations on your new violin, and welcome to MN. 

[PhilipKT]

Pretty scroll.

take pics of the bow too. Nürnbergers are fun

[sospiri]

I wonder if Mr Clar has seen this thread?

[Delabo]

Looks to be a decent violin with conventional looking arching.

 

[Wood Butcher]

5 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Looks to be a decent violin with conventional looking arching.

 

What does unconventional arching look like?

[sospiri]

15 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Looks to be a decent violin with conventional looking arching.

 

It's not conventional arching. Look at the top, it's a continuous curve. Mine is very similar to that one  but with better arching.

These were made in Schönbach. I dont think the OP is really interested in the fact that the label is fictitious though, just the word of Mr Clar and his appraisal of $5000.

[Delabo]

23 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

What does unconventional arching look like?

I refer you  to Blank Face original post and the comment about the arching made...........

"I would not dismiss it too early. The "E" is possibly just a typo or misread and from the bit I can see at the photos it could be a very neatly made Markneukirchen. Also model and arching look right for a HT Heberlein jun."

So "conventional" = HT Hebelein jun arching.

Unless of course you disagree, and I would very much welcome any comments you wish to make about the arching and guide me as to where I am mistaken.

[PaganiniVuillaume]

12 minutes ago, sospiri said:

It's not conventional arching. Look at the top, it's a continuous curve. Mine is very similar to that one  but with better arching.

These were made in Schönbach. I dont think the OP is really interested in the fact that the label is fictitious though, just the word of Mr Clar and his appraisal of $5000.

Lmfao, I just wanted something half decent to play on tbh...

[sospiri]

21 minutes ago, bsharma8 said:

Lmfao, I just wanted something half decent to play on tbh...

So who do you believe as regards the value?

[PaganiniVuillaume]

11 minutes ago, sospiri said:

So who do you believe as regards the value?

I don't really care. I played on a $100 violin in an orchestra for 4 years. Anything is a step up at this point to me. It produces a good sound and now with the repairs is even better. All that remains is opening the lower strings a bit more.

[PaganiniVuillaume]

11 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Great!  Congratulations on your new violin, and welcome to MN. 

Thank you!

[sospiri]

1 hour ago, bsharma8 said:

I don't really care. I played on a $100 violin in an orchestra for 4 years. Anything is a step up at this point to me. It produces a good sound and now with the repairs is even better. All that remains is opening the lower strings a bit more.

So you're keeping it to play? I hope so. I really love these because they are beautiful student instruments. Yours especially so.