Sign in to follow this  
bsharma8

Lucky Buy?

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, avandesande said:

Why do the least interesting violins generate the most discussion?

Laff laff. My thought exactly.

I would like to see some better pictures, frankly, but I don’t like to hear about these other violin forums that someone mentioned. I wouldn’t mind popping over there to tell everybody hi.

Meanwhile,, What is “relief” in this context? I know the other terms, but not that one. And frankly, we can’t tell whether or not the fingerboard needs work. It might, it might not. No point in arguing about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, martin swan said:

With respect, I wasn't lecturing. I chose my words very carefully, stuck to the facts, and didn't make it personal.

 

 

I wouldn’t mind a lecture at all. Start with the Widhalm that got sold last week... was it real?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, avandesande said:

Why do the least interesting violins generate the most discussion?

Because most here clearly wouldn’t know how to evaluate, or what to do with anything good.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I wouldn’t mind a lecture at all. Start with the Widhalm that got sold last week... was it real?

Yes.

It had quite a few cracks on the top, it was over-polished and heavily touched up, and it wasn't the nicest model so it didn't seem like a proposition for us, but a nice violin nonetheless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, avandesande said:

Why do the least interesting violins generate the most discussion?

I find it interesting.

Its interesting because it has been suggested it was made on the Thau milling machine and it is essential to learn how to distinguish between a violin made using this method and one that has been roughed out by hand.

If you do a search in the internet for "Thau milling machine" it will yield scant results, and even this forum has little to say about this.

The questions I would like answering include  - was this machine used for just roughing out with hand finishing ?

How do you visually spot one from external visual examination ?

Where do they rank in terms of quality  and how much to value them at ?

And why did an experienced luthier in New York city not spot its real origins and mistakenly  ID it as hand made ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, avandesande said:

Why do the least interesting violins generate the most discussion?

It would be a more or less interesting violin if the pictures were better. 

On 10/3/2020 at 7:54 PM, bsharma8 said:

I'm just confused at this point of what to do.

Post some more and better pictures.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Delabo said:

 

Its interesting because it has been suggested it was made on the Thau milling machine and it is essential to learn how to distinguish between a violin made using this method and one that has been roughed out by hand.

 

I don't think it is essential ...

Jacob is more knowledgeable than me and can answer better, but in brief, since this machine was introduced into the MK workshops (around 1915) it quickly became ubiquitous for all lower level trade violins (and I assume for many better violins that were hand-finished).

Aside from some odd cases where you can hardly imagine someone being able to produce such gross and caricatural arching by hand, I don't suppose there are any signs that the roughing out was done by machine, nor are there really any consequences. It's just a fair assumption that you can make about any MK/Sch trade violin made after a certain date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I don't think it is essential ...

Jacob is more knowledgeable than me and can answer better, but in brief, since this machine was introduced into the MK workshops (around 1915) it quickly became ubiquitous for all lower level trade violins (and I assume for many better violins that were hand-finished).

Aside from some odd cases where you can hardly imagine someone being able to produce such gross and caricatural arching by hand, there are no signs that the roughing out was done by machine, nor are there really any consequences. It's just a fair assumption that you can make about any MK/Sch trade violin made after a certain date.

I can usually spot the most extreme examples of milled out violins because they look like they came out of a jelly mould, but this one does not look to be one of those, at least not from the pictures supplied.

And then there is the problem of what you have described in the past of French "pressed" violins. Were they a thing or was that debunked ?

The arching on this one seems to be high but not extreme and seems to flow nicer to the edges than the usual jelly mould type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Delabo said:

I can usually spot the most extreme examples of milled out violins because they look like they came out of a jelly mould, but this one does not look to be one of those, at least not from the pictures supplied.

And then there is the problem of what you have described in the past of French "pressed" violins. Were they a thing or was that debunked ?

The arching on this one seems to be high but not extreme and seems to flow nicer to the edges than the usual jelly mould type.

French "pressed" violins were most certainly not debunked. I remember one irate member here who was very sure that none of his French violins were pressed, but it was the essential means of construction for a large proportion of French trade violins. This is verifiable both from the documents of the big Mirecourt workshops and by taking a quick look at the end blocks ...

The Thau milling machine would rough out whatever arching you told it to, so I think it's pointless to try to deduce whether it was used or not. Nor would a luthier necessarily be able to tell - it's a presumption based on an understanding of the history of the makers/workshops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, martin swan said:

French "pressed" violins were most certainly not debunked. I remember one irate member here who was very sure that none of his French violins were pressed, but it was the essential means of construction for a large proportion of French trade violins. This is verifiable both from the documents of the big Mirecourt workshops and by taking a quick look at the end blocks ...

The Thau milling machine would rough out whatever arching you told it to, so I think it's pointless to try to deduce whether it was used or not. Nor would a luthier necessarily be able to tell - it's a presumption based on an understanding of the history of the makers/workshops.

Sorry for the confusion over pressed tops, I seem to remember now that "Medio Fino" were made that way.

Anyways, I have found the thread that made me get muddled about pressed tops .............

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/326095-seeking-infomation-on-old-violin/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Delabo said:

I can usually spot the most extreme examples of milled out violins because they look like they came out of a jelly mould, but this one does not look to be one of those, at least not from the pictures supplied.

And then there is the problem of what you have described in the past of French "pressed" violins. Were they a thing or was that debunked ?

The arching on this one seems to be high but not extreme and seems to flow nicer to the edges than the usual jelly mould type.

I have a violin very similar to the OP's and the arching is very nice. In fact it is so even that I can well believe it was machined. They must have done this to keep the costs down and it seems to have been  very sucessful. Mine doesn't have a fake label, so the value is very low. Of course I could put a fake label in and take it to the Luthier in NYC. And he will seize it gleefully and say "This violin will be worth $7000 when I have completed the work"

But it doesn't need any work. I just cut a new bridge and soundpost and fitted new strings. It may a low value, but I love it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/5/2020 at 10:21 PM, martin swan said:

Ebony fingerboards are not stable. An instrument that has been sitting doing nothing for 100 years will very often have an unacceptable degree of relief in the fingerboard, or some warping the other way, resulting in serious buzzes or choked notes.

Correcting the relief on a fingerboard is one of the most basic tasks in setting up an instrument, however lowly in origin. Sometimes there is no altethe rnative but to start again with a new fingerboard, most times ten minutes with a plane and a bit of nouse and the problems are sorted ...

What do you see as the common problems?

I worry about what some people perceive as issues that need "correcting".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, sospiri said:

What do you see as the common problems?

I worry about what some people perceive as issues that need "correcting".

Warping upwards that makes the instrument unplayable with any ease above about 3rd position ...

Warping downwards around the neck stop which causes buzzes and choked notes ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t have much to say other than a newly planed fingerboard is always lovely.  The last one I had done (not by me:)) I didn’t think needed done but made a big difference. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Warping upwards that makes the instrument unplayable with any ease above about 3rd position ...

Warping downwards around the neck stop which causes buzzes and choked notes ...

You have the patience of a saint...:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Warping upwards that makes the instrument unplayable with any ease above about 3rd position ...

Warping downwards around the neck stop which causes buzzes and choked notes ...

I have only encountered this type of problem due to someone else's incompetence. Presumably he was trying to alter the projection by thinning the board because he didn't understand it has to be done cautiously.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.