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bsharma8

Lucky Buy?

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Sometimes you get lucky and find a fiddle for a bargain.  Most of the time it’s the other way around BECAUSE people are looking for the bargain. I personally have pd way too much for junk in the past.  From the looks of it the op took it to the luthier who told him he lucked out (whether that is the case is still being debated) 

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52 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Their issue seemed to be that tailpieces must cost only $5, and chinrests $10, and that they were being marked up 300%. I was making the point that not all fittings cost so little, and they have no idea what quality the luthier has specified.

Personally, I’d want decent quality parts, but not the most expensive for a student grade violin. 

Fair enough.

 

34 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Almost every violin I get in the shop from this era needs fingerboard planeing, either the curve is wrong (not 42mm) and/or the dish is too much or too little, or simply excessive wear. Although charging $150 for this seems excessive.

As too the $5 tailpieces these are the better grade, till you get into things like Bois de Harmonie etc, I guess you could pay extra for German made parts from Dictum, but I hardly think the functionality or appearance would be superior in any way.

Why do the fingerboard need planning? Why is the radius wrong? What difference does it make? I never worry about the radius or the dish. These are nonsensical claims to me. The guys who made these instruments knew what they were doing. They are perfect student instruments if like the OP's violin they have hardly been played.

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13 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Why do the fingerboard need planning? Why is the radius wrong? What difference does it make? I never worry about the radius or the dish. These are nonsensical claims to me. The guys who made these instruments knew what they were doing. They are perfect student instruments if like the OP's violin they have hardly been played.

you're not a luthier or a player??? The radius is wrong because modern 42mm radius was not standard in 1900, if you're going to make the bridge curve 42mm, the fingerboard needs to match, and for playability the dish needs to be correct within reason. Now if you're only going to play in first position you may not care about getting it right.

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Just now, Strad O Various Jr. said:

you're not a luthier or a player???

You're digging a hole. Stop before you go too deep.

Why would you think you know better than those craftsmen of the 1930s?

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7 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Do you think professional luthiers should work on a sliding scale, based on the value of the instrument? To true and refinish the fingerboard of a German violin is €150, a Gagliano €1500, and a kids violin €1.50,  for the same job?

Let's leave out professional luthiers and just include the shop owners or whoever sets the prices for their shop.

Let's put this particular fiddle in comparison with a 6500 sq. ft. home that the fiddle shop owner owns, just for example.

When it's exterior repainting time does the home owner just hire the first contractor who quotes a bid of $8200.00 with the confidence that there will be no problems or does he wants something a whole heck of a lot cheaper?  New shudders and new gutters even though the ones already in use are o.k.?   Hmm, let's charge more.

I didn't read anywhere if there could be neck projection issues - hope there isn't any problem with that.

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19 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

I answered you above, also fingerboards can warp in 100 yrs.

 

 

I wouldn't dream of trying to improve the op violin if I think it is in good condition. I would just give it a good set up. 

Sometimes the fingerboard has been replaced with a too thin one or planed too thin and both the neck and fingerboard warp. 

 

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4 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

The work will take very similar amounts of time, regardless of the value of an instrument.

Really ?

A  Guarneri worth millions still only receives the same amount of time  care and attention that is given to a $500 student violin ?

That does surprise me.

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27 minutes ago, sospiri said:

 

I wouldn't dream of trying to improve the op violin if I think it is in good condition. I would just give it a good set up. 

Sometimes the fingerboard has been replaced with a too thin one or planed too thin and both the neck and fingerboard warp. 

 

This seems to confirm that you're not concerned with the playability of the instrument. A correct fingerboard is part of a good set up, you wouldn't dream of using the original warped bridge after 130 years, would you.

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12 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

This seems to confirm that you're not concerned with the playability of the instrument. A correct fingerboard is part of a good set up, you wouldn't dream of using the original warped bridge after 130 years, would you.

Stop trying to twist my words.

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10 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Really ?

A  Guarneri worth millions still only receives the same amount of time  care and attention that is given to a $500 student violin ?

That does surprise me.

I’m quite sure that definitely is not the case.

In your previous post, which I was responding to, you seemed to be at odds with the idea that luthiers should get paid appropriately for their work, if not working on world class instruments.

Most trained professional luthiers have one quality level they bring to the table, the best they can do. In this respect, if they true the fingerboard on a €10,000 violin and a €1500 violin, it is done to the same level of quality, so why should they get paid less to do the €1500 one?

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40 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Well you seem to be of the opinion that the fingerboard is not critical to the playability, as any old thing will do for you???

Grow up kid.

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31 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Most trained professional luthiers have one quality level they bring to the table, the best they can do. In this respect, if they true the fingerboard on a €10,000 violin and a €1500 violin, it is done to the same level of quality, so why should they get paid less to do the €1500 one?

The OP's original question was about the value of the instrument and somehow this thread has deteriorated into how much should luthiers get paid.

Once the OP has a definite valuation and that should be - insurance - retail - ebay - Craiglist  then he\she can decide if the repair bill is appropriate to the instrument. If the OP is happy to pay a $1200 setup bill for a violin valued at a few hundred dollars then that's fine by me.

 

 

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7 hours ago, sospiri said:

You're digging a hole. Stop before you go too deep.

Why would you think you know better than those craftsmen of the 1930s?

 

6 hours ago, sospiri said:

Stop trying to twist my words.

 

5 hours ago, sospiri said:

Grow up kid.

Yup.  You seem to be channeling the sort of thoughts I often have but seldom post.  :lol:

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39 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Well if this is to be a hack forum, keep the insults rolling, I'll be happy to go down as the professional.

:mellow:

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36 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Well if this is to be a hack forum, keep the insults rolling, I'll be happy to go down as the professional.

It's not a hack forum. Even I, a lowly amateur, know that that checking and, if necessary, fixing the the fingerboard projection through the use of a wood tool known as a plane is a regular part of a setup. 'Sospiri' clearly doesn't want to know...ignore him. We have better things to yell at each other about. (That being said, it would be nice if 'planing' were recognized as a valid word by the software here instead of being redlined as a misspelling)  

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8 hours ago, sospiri said:

Why do the fingerboard need planning? Why is the radius wrong? What difference does it make? I never worry about the radius or the dish. These are nonsensical claims to me. The guys who made these instruments knew what they were doing. They are perfect student instruments if like the OP's violin they have hardly been played.

Ebony fingerboards are not stable. An instrument that has been sitting doing nothing for 100 years will very often have an unacceptable degree of relief in the fingerboard, or some warping the other way, resulting in serious buzzes or choked notes.

Correcting the relief on a fingerboard is one of the most basic tasks in setting up an instrument, however lowly in origin. Sometimes there is no alternative but to start again with a new fingerboard, most times ten minutes with a plane and a bit of nouse and the problems are sorted ...

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44 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Ebony fingerboards are not stable. An instrument that has been sitting doing nothing for 100 years will very often have an unacceptable degree of relief in the fingerboard, or some warping the other way, resulting in serious buzzes or choked notes.

Correcting the relief on a fingerboard is one of the most basic tasks in setting up an instrument, however lowly in origin. Sometimes there is no alternative but to start again with a new fingerboard, most times ten minutes with a plane and a bit of nouse and the problems are sorted ...

Thank you for a pleasantly written explanation of why old fingerboards can't be trusted.  :)

When you disagree with someone, folks, it's no excuse to start poking them with a stick.  :lol:

 

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2 hours ago, _Alex said:

It's not a hack forum. Even I, a lowly amateur, know that that checking and, if necessary, fixing the the fingerboard projection through the use of a wood tool known as a plane is a regular part of a setup. 'Sospiri' clearly doesn't want to know...ignore him. We have better things to yell at each other about. (That being said, it would be nice if 'planing' were recognized as a valid word by the software here instead of being redlined as a misspelling)  

 

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

Ebony fingerboards are not stable. An instrument that has been sitting doing nothing for 100 years will very often have an unacceptable degree of relief in the fingerboard, or some warping the other way, resulting in serious buzzes or choked notes.

Correcting the relief on a fingerboard is one of the most basic tasks in setting up an instrument, however lowly in origin. Sometimes there is no alternative but to start again with a new fingerboard, most times ten minutes with a plane and a bit of nouse and the problems are sorted ...

I do not need a lecture from either of you on the subject. I'm pretty certain I could teach you both a thing or two on the matter.

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47 minutes ago, sospiri said:

 

I do not need a lecture from either of you on the subject. I'm pretty certain I could teach you both a thing or two on the matter.

So now its Martin Swan who's ignorant, and you who knows everything, yeah, right!!

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56 minutes ago, sospiri said:

 

I do not need a lecture from either of you on the subject. I'm pretty certain I could teach you both a thing or two on the matter.

With respect, I wasn't lecturing. I chose my words very carefully, stuck to the facts, and didn't make it personal.

 

 

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On 10/2/2020 at 1:44 PM, Violadamore said:

Current prices on these vary a lot, but tend toward inflated.  From comments on violin forums, they seem to enjoy a better reputation than plain "rubbish", much like those labelled "Roth" or "Juzek", but to a lesser extent (so far).

You know what I'm gonna say...but is the Juzek algorithm detector on the fritz again?

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