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bsharma8

Lucky Buy?

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Someone was clearly selling something they had no idea what it was. I was able to buy it for $150. My Luthier in NYC told me when it properly repaired which should be about ~700 dollars, it will be worth around ~7,000. Does this seem right at all? Label says Heinrich E. Heberlein Jr. 1922. Strad Copy. Thanks for your insight!

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Not worth anywhere near $7000 Heinrich E Heberlein is a made up name for a cheap trade violin. Heinrich Th Heberlein is the real maker that could be worth thousands. all the difference the middle initials make. When properly repaired it should be worth about $700, find an honest luthier, this one trying to rip you off.

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Definitely better pictures are needed.

Though, looks better than150 dollar from distance. (And if I close my eyes I can see a 7000 dollar fiddle.:rolleyes:)

Wondering though what's on the repair list to make it up to 700, because it looks like playable condition. Any cracks I can't see on the pictures!

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I would not dismiss it too early. The "E" is possibly just a typo or misread and from the bit I can see at the photos it could be a very neatly made Markneukirchen. Also model and arching look right for a HT Heberlein jun. What I heard about NYC prices one can pay $ 700 for some basic setup work easily, too.

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16 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Heinrich E Heberlein violins are common enough, and have nothing to do with genuine Heberlein violins, it is not a typo, they are cheaper Markenukirchen trade violins, not $7000 genuine Heberleins, they commonly go for about $500 on ebay.

Never heard this before. Is it an American import trade mark, like Juzek?

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I see these on ebay quite a bit, I researched it online and it appears that Heinrich E. Heberlein Jr. is not a person but a fictitious trade name that has nothing to do with Heinrich Th. Heberlein Jr. There's also Julius Heberlein, I think that's a made up one too.

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It’s hard to tell from the tiny Out of focus pictures, but I am in agreement with blank face.  It looks neatly done and outline looks similar to hthjr.  Obviously the label would most likely clear this up in this case.  Ha Does it have a small Roman numeral under the tailpiece just above the saddle on the top? 

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8 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Not worth anywhere near $7000 Heinrich E Heberlein is a made up name for a cheap trade violin. Heinrich Th Heberlein is the real maker that could be worth thousands. all the difference the middle initials make. When properly repaired it should be worth about $700, find an honest luthier, this one trying to rip you off.

I would be  hesitant to pass judgement on the integrity of the luthier concerned on the basis of these photos. Very unfair comment!

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21 hours ago, bsharma8 said:

Someone was clearly selling something they had no idea what it was. I was able to buy it for $150. My Luthier in NYC told me when it properly repaired which should be about ~700 dollars, it will be worth around ~7,000. Does this seem right at all? Label says Heinrich E. Heberlein Jr. 1922. Strad Copy. Thanks for your insight!

Might want to find a more knowledgeable  luthier.

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I would be interested in an experts opinion on the arching.

Do we find this type of arching on cheap Marchneukirchen violins of this time period ?

Or does this indicate better grade ?

heberlein1.png

heberlein2.png

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The arching was largely constrained by the arching blank (Fräsling) from the Thau milling machine (or later models). I have a stack of these in my workshop, and to get that arching out of it would be easy

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There are all grades of violins with Heberlein labels, this one looks like its somewhere in the middle. It could easily be 4 figures in many retail shops, but 7K sounds a bit nuts. Still a good buy at 150 and worth the 700 to get it all fitted out.

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9 minutes ago, Jwillis said:

Mine has the grade in Roman numerals under the tailpiece. Very faint and impossible to see with the tailpiece attached 

I very much doubt that that has anything to do with "Grade" rather the number will have been there to help whoever made it, get the right belly on the right rib-cage, rather like bow Roman numerals on the frog and on the stick

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I've been following the thread but am restricted to 2 comments a day. First off, the luthier is not bad, he studied with Carlos Archieri and Rene Morel so I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. The repairs needed are: New bridge, new soundpost, new tailpiece, closing an open seam, new ebony fittings, new evah pirazzi strings, planing the fingerboard slightly and maybe filing the nut. In NYC I can see how this would be expensive. I was quoted $400 for a bridge from a different, more famous luthier even. I just wanted to know if this was worth fixing up. It's interesting because the second the luthier picked up the violin when I brought it to him, he said it was a >$5000 instrument when just looking it over quickly. I don't mind the value because I want to play on it but thinking if i should go to a shop and build a violin. My original budget was $3,000 and $1,000 for a bow. Thanks all!

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So has anyone found a list of Heinrich th heberlein Jr violins with their corresponding grades?  I haven’t been able to find one floating on the inter web.  Or a way to differentiate different grades

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3 hours ago, Delabo said:

I would be interested in an experts opinion on the arching.

Do we find this type of arching on cheap Marchneukirchen violins of this time period ?

Or does this indicate better grade ?

heberlein1.png

heberlein2.png

Dramatic arching on Markies is not uncommon.  Neither are Heberleins of various labelings, varnish colors, and scroll designs.  Some bear importers' brands inside. 

A little assiduous Google-fu works wonders here.  They were trade fiddles apparently sold exclusively by the Heberlein workshop/factory in Markneukirchen (I've found no evidence of "claim jumping") to a variety of US importers (Oliver Ditson in Boston, and E.T. Root &Sons in Chicago, among others) in the early 1900's.  Sorting out grades and models will require delving through surviving copies of distributors' catalogs, and copies of The Violinist, up through the 1920's.  Good flipping luck.  :lol:

Current prices on these vary a lot, but tend toward inflated.  From comments on violin forums, they seem to enjoy a better reputation than plain "rubbish", much like those labelled "Roth" or "Juzek", but to a lesser extent (so far).

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