Another Sebastian Kloz Replica Violin?

[Kheong]

Dear All

Apologies in advance on taking up your time and bandwidth, but this is my first post seeking help with the identification of a labelled Sebastian Kloz violin. I have changed the tailpiece, but it came with a hill version with 1 fine tuner.

Please let me know if other pics would be helpful, and I will try my best to furnish them.

Again, thank you for all the great read.

Regards

Kheong

[HoGo]

I'm by no means violin expert but my first impression after seeing fronnt was modern Chinese. Certainly doesn't look like old instrument.The experts will be here soon to correct me if I'm wrong.

[jacobsaunders]

Quite right. Some nearly new VSO. Goodness knows where it comes from. The fake Klotz label is a bad joke

[Wood Butcher]

Not a Kloz.
Outline, scroll, varnish, arching and F holes nothing like a Kloz. Not German, not old.

[shunkpenn]

9 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Not a Kloz.
Outline, scroll, varnish, arching and F holes nothing like a Kloz. Not German, not old.

Since we’re on the Kloz subject...we’re there any family members that branded internally instead of a label. I recently acquired what seems to be an old Klotz without a label and want to know where to look inside. 

[zhiyi_zhang617]

13 hours ago, HoGo said:

I'm by no means violin expert but my first impression after seeing fronnt was modern Chinese. Certainly doesn't look like old instrument.The experts will be here soon to correct me if I'm wrong.

I am no expert at all. However, it does look Chinese to me, and a well-made one.

[PhilipKT]

Not a Klotz. I don’t know anything but I know that. The pattern is wrong the varnish is wrong the scroll is wrong, I think even the archings are wrong. 

[Andreas Preuss]

中国産

[jacobsaunders]

5 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Not a Klotz. I don’t know anything but I know that. 

More importantly perhaps, is isn't a "replica" of a Klotz, rather a "replica" of a piece of shit with an outrageous fake label

[Dave Slight]

Appears to be a generic Chinese violin.

[Violadamore]

Arrrrgh!!  [Double facepalm.]  Blasphemy!!!!     

@Kheong, very nice, clear photos, thank you.  Please add two additional pics, one showing the back side of the scroll and neck from the top to the button, and a second pic taken obliquely through the treble side F-hole, to show the area around the base of the soundpost. 

[Aside to the audience]  We might as well see the full extent of this travesty.  I've been expecting something like this to appear for a long time now.  The Four Horsemen seem to be gathering.  Dear heavens, fake rubbish.........   [Begins to weep theatrically.] 

[Rue]

...do I need to unearth the smelling salts? 

[matesic]

It probably plays better than a real one

[Wood Butcher]

11 minutes ago, matesic said:

It probably plays better than a real one

I guess you have never played a real one.

[PhilipKT]

45 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

I guess you have never played a real one.

I’ve known a few Klotzes and they sounded fantastic. Do they not generally sound good?

oh I should have shared this comment with @matesic

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by PhilipKT

[PhilipKT]

9 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

More importantly perhaps, is isn't a "replica" of a Klotz, rather a "replica" of a piece of shit with an outrageous fake label

Yes it occurred to me that this was no attempt to copy anything, it was just a violin and somebody slapped In a random label. The Rolodex was at “K” And so Klotz was the choice.

[PhilipKT]

This brings to mind a question that has occurred to me often. Would anybody ever actually want to copy a Klotz? Not with deception in mind but in an attempt to actually re-create it because it sounded great? Was that fundamental design worth copying? And I know they were lots and lots and There is lots of variation, but I hope the question is clear regardless. I think they are very attractive instruments. But are they worth copying?

[deans]

4 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Would anybody ever actually want to copy a Klotz?

Here's one, in period set up, not sure how successful he was making it a true copy.

http://www.devinhoughviolins.com/jkloz.html

I have seen some recent M-wald makers whose instruments looked like Kloz copies. Cant come up with a name though, maybe it will pop into my head.

[matesic]

1 hour ago, Wood Butcher said:

I guess you have never played a real one.

Just trying to sweeten the pill. Maybe my jokes would go down better in semaphore

[PhilipKT]

28 minutes ago, deans said:

Here's one, in period set up, not sure how successful he was making it a true copy.

http://www.devinhoughviolins.com/jkloz.html

I have seen some recent M-wald makers whose instruments looked like Kloz copies. Cant come up with a name though, maybe it will pop into my head.

Is that varnish accurate?

[deans]

14 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Is that varnish accurate?

I dont think he tried to replicate that, looks like all of his instruments use the same varnish. But you would have to ask him.

[shunkpenn]

2 hours ago, deans said:

Here's one, in period set up, not sure how successful he was making it a true copy.

http://www.devinhoughviolins.com/jkloz.html

I have seen some recent M-wald makers whose instruments looked like Kloz copies. Cant come up with a name though, maybe it will pop into my head.

I just acquired this and thought it looked early Mittenwald and In the Klotz family...

 

[deans]

That one looks unusual to me, some of the other guys will be more helpful. Any info on the corner blocks? For whatever reason I am thinking Dutch, but that's just something that popped in my head.

[Violadamore]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:07 AM, jacobsaunders said:

Quite right. Some nearly new VSO. Goodness knows where it comes from. The fake Klotz label is a bad joke

 

19 hours ago, zhiyi_zhang617 said:

I am no expert at all. However, it does look Chinese to me, and a well-made one.

Exactly, and that's the entire problem.  The point to concentrate on is that it is not intended as a fake Klotz.  It is very clearly intended to be a fake Markneukirchen-trade-fiddle-with-a-fake-Klotz-label.  Due to some hopefully inescapable realities of the Chinese mass-production process, it is obvious as what it is, to serious rubbish connoisseurs, but a disgustingly serious effort has been made here to fool the eye.   IMHO, the only possible use for something like this is by those engaged in defrauding consumers.  Everybody take a really good look, we're certain to see more of this. 

[shunkpenn]

9 minutes ago, deans said:

That one looks unusual to me, some of the other guys will be more helpful. Any info on the corner blocks? For whatever reason I am thinking Dutch, but that's just something that popped in my head.

Good question. I’m out of town until next week and will follow up on that.