my old little cello.

[PhilipKT]

You should have had Jacob do the work.

we would get detailed updates and learn a great deal.

 

[GeorgeH]

1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

You should have had Jacob do the work.

we would get detailed updates and learn a great deal.

I always ask my luthier to take pictures before and after if the top is coming off.

[baroquecello]

So, the cello is being restored. I'm not posting any pics of the process or the name of the lutier doing the work without prior consent, however, I think I can post a picture of the neck construction. The nec had an overstand of about 5 MM or so, and of those 5MM, 2,5MM were due to a shim under the fingerboard. As the button had broken off and left quite a mess, it will be doubled and the neck will receive a neck block, and a "shoe" to fit as much of the original neck into the new top block, and result in an acceptable neck overstand. I asked the lutier to also document the old construction well. I find this picture very interesting. I couln't believe how thin the strip between the "neck block" and the neck is! In combination with the glueing to the ribs (the glueing surface to the ribs is so large, it seems to me that it has some resemblance to the practise of glueing a neck onto the ribs, and extra securing it with a nail, like the cremonese did), it seems to hve been enough nonetheless, as the construction didn't break, just the button did. A question for the experts: is such an incredibly thin strip, connecting the neck with the block normal? I had always imagined it at least three times as wide. How exactly did they produce this construction; what was the order of doing things? Was the neck glued onto the back first, and the ribs inserted after that, or inverse? Or was the rib cage and neck completed first and then transferred onto the unfinished back as a whole?

[jacobsaunders]

I#m afraid I can't see your picture

[baroquecello]

Strange, it appears in my post from here. I'll try posting the picture with a different method....

 

[jacobsaunders]

Thanks, I can see the picture now.

One glues the neck/integral block on the back, then inserts the ribs in the groves, which are then wedged in with a (pine) wedge. Your groves are exceptionally large. I don’t think anybody will be so rash as to second guess or otherwise judge or remark upon what your unnamed restorer is doing, although I’m pretty certain that I would have endeavoured to preserve this classical construction

[nathan slobodkin]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:07 PM, Blank face said:

In my eyes it’s a typical product of the Markneukirchen/Schönbach region, most probably from the second half of the 19th century. Features indicating this are for example the wood choice (the vertical stripes at the bottom were mentioned recently in another thread), the way the very Vogtlandish purfling goes to the corners, the whole model with the long pointed corners, the ff nicks, the varnish, also the form of scroll with „Hinterkopf“ and straight thin pegbox, not to mention the beech neck. It’s a rare thing to find a fully fluted scroll there, but not impossible. Scrolls and necks were made by specialist workshops and usually not there, where the box came from (usually from Schönbach); so I would not exclude the particular origin by a single feature alone when everything else is pointing in this direction and period.

Corner blocks are corner blocks (as long as they aren’t thin logs only)wether they were part of the construction or added at some point later, I can‘t tell how to tell them „fake“ - otherwise there would be many old Flemish, French, North-West Italian or Neapolitan (everywhere they built on the back) having fake blocks.

To give a value to such an instrument in the described condition is a nearly impossible undertaking, so I‘m agreeing with the other posters who told you that it is your very personal decision only if you will invest into a restoration or will not.

 Could you elaborate on which and when Italians used BOB construction? Or perhaps start a new thread if you'd rather not digress too far from this one. Thanks

[Blank face]

7 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

 Could you elaborate on which and when Italians used BOB construction? Or perhaps start a new thread if you'd rather not digress too far from this one. Thanks

I think there are several threads discussing this topic, for example about the Brescian school starting with bob in opposite to the Cremonese, or the Neapolitan school being influenced by Füssen immigrants using this method also. The Piemontese had a building on the back with ribs inserted into grooves method. Some interesting essays are also at the Amati or Cozio websites, by J. Dilworth and P. Kass as I recall.

[Bob K]

Is that neck block all one piece? There looks like a ridge or two different colours to the wood but I may just be seeing where the button was sawn off/separated as a lighter patch?  Thinking about it that's a stupid question as it, if not, it would have to be glued on the end grain but I can't work out how to delete it!

 

[nathan slobodkin]

10 hours ago, Blank face said:

I think there are several threads discussing this topic, for example about the Brescian school starting with bob in opposite to the Cremonese, or the Neapolitan school being influenced by Füssen immigrants using this method also. The Piemontese had a building on the back with ribs inserted into grooves method. Some interesting essays are also at the Amati or Cozio websites, by J. Dilworth and P. Kass as I recall.

Thank you. I will look them up.

[Flattmountain]

Will we get to hear her when she's done??

[baroquecello]

So, the cello is done getting repaired. It costed about double what I expect I could sell the it for, and, due to unforseen defects, a little more than initially planned (but not ridiculously so). It has great string response, and a deep sound on the lower three strings. I'm not too happy with the sound of the a string yet, which is bordering the shrill, but maybe something can be done about it. Currently it has a belgian bridge, a carbon fibre tail piece and an ultra-close-to-the-bridge sound post position, all of them aspects of setup that brighten the sound, so there are some possibilities for tinkering still. On the whole, I'm really happy I did it. I absolutely love playing this cello. It has been an inspiring week playing it, I don't remember last time I had so much fun practising. I'm curious how it will hold up when playing with a piano or an organ, in a couple of weeks; I'm not sure how well the sound projects. But right now, at home, I feel no need to unpack my other instruments at all. Was it a mistake to invest so much money in the restoration of such a cello? I guess I will only be able to tell for sure in a couple of years, but right now, I think it was worth every cent. I haven't played many celli that gave me this much satisfaction. 

[Rue]

Aw! I'm happy it turned out so well for you! 

[Rue]

Oh yeah!  Almost forgot. Sound clip?