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Rue

Wood densities

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How much does wood density = similar wood properties?

I need a chunk of redwood or cedar to destroy. Our local exotic wood supply store had neither. I opted for balsa. My other options were mostly too hard, so I went with a softer wood - that had less chance of splintering.

But neither I, nor the guys, could come up with a better substitute for redwood/cedar.

Which had me wondering about other wood properties and how density relates.

BTW...they also had a beautiful little slab of ebony (half black, half-brown) :wub:...for a horrendous price :huh:...that I would have loved to have, if I had any woodworking skills worth mentioning - or any idea of what could be made from it. It was about 8" x 2".

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

How much does wood density = similar wood properties?

Not much at all I am afraid, especially for different species of wood. You can find woods with significantly higher densities than other types, yet have significantly lower sound speeds, and vice versa. Other properties, like damping, stiffness, fracture resistance, creep and yield failure have no strong correlation based strictly on density.

For the same species of wood, one can find "better" correlations between things like sound speed and elastic modulus versus density.

 

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

I need a chunk of redwood or cedar to destroy. Our local exotic wood supply store had neither

Redwood and cedar are not "exotic".  Try Home Depot or any lumber dealer.  Balsa I think would be a poor substitute... spruce would be closer.

If you are looking at modulus vs. density, there's a definite correlation across different types of wood.  However, there's a lot of scatter as well.  It depends how close you want to get.

1730048353_Modulusvsdensity.jpg.25eb3995249fdfa8752316eaf54e0a0a.jpg

 

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5 minutes ago, ctanzio said:

Not much at all I am afraid, especially for different species of wood. You can find woods with significantly higher densities than other types, yet have significantly lower sound speeds, and vice versa. Other properties, like damping, stiffness, fracture resistance, creep and yield failure have no strong correlation based strictly on density.

For the same species of wood, one can find "better" correlations between things like sound speed and elastic modulus versus density.

 

Okay - so if I made a violin of different woods than spruce and maple, but with the same density as spruce and maple, the resulting violin would still have little, or no, resemble to a spruce and maple violin.  And I mean grossly. Obviously there are other factors...or more people would be playing non-spruce/maple violins.

8 minutes ago, Jim Bress said:

The Wood Database (https://www.wood-database.com/) is a good site to look up wood properties.  With the stated goal of destroying the wood, I have no idea what properties might be important to you for achieving the same result as cedar or redwood.   care to expand on what you're doing?

Thanks! I will peruse the information. 

I am going to trim hooves with a specialty trimming tool. They recommend to learn how to use it by practicing on cedar/redwood since those woods are closest in density to hooves.

The trimmer consists of interchangeable discs, but the main one is a chainsaw "disc". I don't want to have an "oopsie" with that one. 

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1 minute ago, Rue said:

I am going to trim hooves with a specialty trimming tool. They recommend to learn how to use it by practicing on cedar/redwood since those woods are closest in density to hooves.

in that case you could just go into the woods nearby and whack a small cedar.  they're super common.  or wait till christmas :)

 

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6 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

Redwood and cedar are not "exotic".  Try Home Depot or any lumber dealer.  Balsa I think would be a poor substitute... spruce would be closer.

If you are looking at modulus vs. density, there's a definite correlation across different types of wood.  However, there's a lot of scatter as well.  It depends how close you want to get.

1730048353_Modulusvsdensity.jpg.25eb3995249fdfa8752316eaf54e0a0a.jpg

 

I can try Home Depot.

We seem to have a slightly odd supply chain up here.

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I pity any animal that has hooves with the properties of redwood or cedar.  I'm not really an animal expert, but it seems like just a few steps, and the hooves would be worn/split and otherwise destroyed.  Seems like a tougher wood like maple would be a better test for your trimming tool.  But again, I don't know hooves.

 

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1 minute ago, Bill Merkel said:

in that case you could just go into the woods nearby and whack a small cedar.  they're super common.  or wait till christmas :)

 

Cedar - not so common here. Poplar and maple, on the other hand...

Can't wait until Christmas - need to start getting the crew used to power tools, vibrations from power tools and pedicures this weekend.

Once we're all on the same page, I should be able to keep everyone in tip-top shape by doing touch-ups every 2-3 weeks using the rasp attachment (~5 minutes per critter, if the dealer is to be believed). Overall, it should save time, stress and money.

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3 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

I pity any animal that has hooves with the properties of redwood or cedar.  I'm not really an animal expert, but it seems like just a few steps, and the hooves would be worn/split and otherwise destroyed.  Seems like a tougher wood like maple would be a better test for your trimming tool.  But again, I don't know hooves.

 

I know hooves...I don't know power tools on hooves.

Guess I'll find out shortly. Hope I don't get kicked in the head...that density is questionable. <_<

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i read something once about hypnotizing horses.  you go through this sequence of actions.  i tried it on a horse and a few hours later as i was leaving the horse tried to get to me, to follow me home.  he was like where you going, buddy?

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If there's a meat packing plant around, maybe go there and pick up a scrap foot.  But wear a 10-layer mask when you go there, for a couple of different reasons. ;)

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1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

Redwood and cedar are not "exotic".  Try Home Depot or any lumber dealer.  Balsa I think would be a poor substitute... spruce would be closer.

If you are looking at modulus vs. density, there's a definite correlation across different types of wood.  However, there's a lot of scatter as well.  It depends how close you want to get.

1730048353_Modulusvsdensity.jpg.25eb3995249fdfa8752316eaf54e0a0a.jpg

 

It would be interesting to see where Pacific Yew or European Yew fell on your graph.

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Some very creative suggestions! ^_^ Thank you.

I do need a squarish hunk of wood though. So it feels hoof-ish shaped in hand. That's why a plank won't work for training.

 

hoof_mistakes-jpg.jpg

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2 hours ago, Rue said:

Okay - so if I made a violin of different woods than spruce and maple, but with the same density as spruce and maple, the resulting violin would still have little, or no, resemble to a spruce and maple violin.  And I mean grossly. Obviously there are other factors...or more people would be playing non-spruce/maple violins.

Thanks! I will peruse the information. 

I am going to trim hooves with a specialty trimming tool. They recommend to learn how to use it by practicing on cedar/redwood since those woods are closest in density to hooves.

The trimmer consists of interchangeable discs, but the main one is a chainsaw "disc". I don't want to have an "oopsie" with that one. 

Balsa carves well.

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2 hours ago, Don Noon said:

You could glue a few planks together.

That would be an easy thing to do if you had a woodworking workshop set up!  And I've done things like that - er, in other people's workshops.

However, here at home, I don't have a table saw set up, or glue, or clamps...:ph34r:

2 hours ago, joerobson said:

Balsa carves well.

That what the boys and I figured.  We also thought it would be better to practice on a lighter wood and develop a lighter touch (because I can always apply a bit more pressure to the hoof if I need to) versus practicing on a wood that is too hard - and then perhaps applying too much pressure to the hoof...

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5 hours ago, Rue said:

I know hooves...I don't know power tools on hooves.

Guess I'll find out shortly. Hope I don't get kicked in the head...that density is questionable. <_<

If you survive, let me know how it goes.  I've never tried a Hoof Boss either, and the things are pricey.  Are you going to use it on your goats, too?  :)

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Yes! I bought the recommended discs for goats as well.

I just thought it would be a lot easier on my hands, especially if we grow the herd.

The trick/benefit will be to do touch ups more often - before the growth gets out of hand.

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