Sign in to follow this  
Shelbow

Is there any relationship between these two violins?

Recommended Posts

Hello wonderful people of Earth.

First of all sorry for the rubbish photos.

I have these two instruments that are very rustic in their construction. They seem to share some similarities in construction style, however one appears to be older and slightly better in terms of craftsmanship.

The scroll is especially simplistic.

Is this a school of making from a particular area, or just a style of cheap instruments churned out from various places over a period of time?

A colleague suggested to me that the violin on the left may be an 18th Century Saxon instrument but I am not entirely convinced.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated and happy to add more photos if I have forgotten anything.

14.png

15.png

1.png

2.png

3.png

4.png

8.png

9.png

10.png

11.png

12.png

13.png

6.png

7.png

5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That IS some scroll! :blink:

I kinda like the back on the first one though...

I know. I am of no help. :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rue said:

That IS some scroll! :blink:

I kinda like the back on the first one though...

I know. I am of no help. :ph34r:

You know more than I do ha ha.

I was very surprised to find a second one with a similar type of scroll which is why I picked it up even though it is very rough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, martin swan said:

If you put the one on the left into a country auction with an estimate of 1-200 someone would probably buy it as a Testore!

:D Ha ha brilliant I love it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given the obvious differences from "the usual" I'm inclined to blame the English for these, inspired by imported similar Saxon originals, but made at two vastly different levels of competence.  That's nice beechwood in the left-hand example, and it might be yet another "rural maker" fiddle from someone who'd made more than a few.  The one on the right crosses the line into "folk fiddle", IMHO, and I won't call it "amateur", because there seems to have been little love involved in carving it.  :mellow:

OTOH, I'll not be surprised if, my having said that, Jacob and BF jump in to berate me for my ignorance, and assure us that equally vile craftsmanship was being committed within a day's walk of Markneukirchen (I'd question how often anything as embarrassing as the one on the right got exported, however :P:lol:).

How and where did you get these?  :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I was wondering if they could be English as they both were acquired here. One was from ebay via an antiques shop in the North of England. The other dodgy one was £22 from a country auction and came with a dodgy old bow and an antique rosin in a ceramic holder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both are most probably from the Austrian Salzkammergut, a short time before the making there was finished by the competition of the even more cheaper Vogtlands in the early 19th century.

And yes of course these are often misrepresented as Testoris, sometimes certified as this at auctions.:blink::ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

The other dodgy one was £22 from a country auction

The London "big money" collectors must have missed this.<_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Blank face said:

The London "big money" collectors must have missed this.<_<

I think that junk just finds its way to me somehow. :P

I find them both very curious, I will look out for more. I am rather fond of the one on the left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Both are most probably from the Austrian Salzkammergut, a short time before the making there was finished by the competition of the even more cheaper Vogtlands in the early 19th century.

And yes of course these are often misrepresented as Testoris, sometimes certified as this at auctions.:blink::ph34r:

Thanks Blank face, good info. So is 18th century a fair time period to state for both of these instruments?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the neck angle is low enough, you could set them up as low budget baroque with a wedged fingerboard and baroque style tailpiece, gut strings etc, I have had violins from Klingenthal, of almost this low a  quality, that still sounded half decent with gut strings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Strad O Various Jr. said:

If the neck angle is low enough, you could set them up as low budget baroque with a wedged fingerboard and baroque style tailpiece, gut strings etc, I have had violins from Klingenthal, of almost this low a  quality, that still sounded half decent with gut strings.

Yeah I was wondering about this, would be nice to have these setup just so that I can test bows on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

Thanks Blank face, good info. So is 18th century a fair time period to state for both of these instruments?

 

I‘d rather assume a ca 1820/30ish date; the older ones were also cheap, but not that nasty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

They are mid 19th C dirt cheap Salzkammergut violins, made for Alpine folksmusic like this 

 

Excellent right up my dads street that kind of thing. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, deans said:

The  appearance of these fiddles suggests that the relationship may have been a bit too close.

Yes I wonder what the child size ones look like

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

They are mid 19th C dirt cheap Salzkammergut violins, made for Alpine folksmusic like this 

 

Looks like they are playing cheap 20th century German trade fiddles. 

Maybe they cant afford Salzkammergut fiddles because thay have all been passed off as Testores

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, deans said:

Looks like they are playing cheap 20th century German trade fiddles. 

Yes, most of them do now. The Goisern violin makers until about the mid 19th C. basically consisted of 3 families, the Keffer, the Peer, the Gändl, who were all intermarried, so that one may almost speak of one family with 3 surnames. Violin making petered out in mid 19th. C there with the advent of the railway, and the start of tourism, where you can earn much more than making cheap violins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Yes, most of them do now. The Goisern violin makers until about the mid 19th C. basically consisted of 3 families, the Keffer, the Peer, the Gändl, who were all intermarried, so that one may almost speak of one family with 3 surnames. Violin making petered out in mid 19th. C there with the advent of the railway, and the start of tourism, where you can earn much more than making cheap violins.

I thought it ended a long time before 1850, but the OP fiddles must have been from the last far cry.:)

This year, when making vacancies in more far away regions was difficult, we had a lot of TV spots about "Fehrrrienn iim Ssaltsskammarrrguut".:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Yes, most of them do now. The Goisern violin makers until about the mid 19th C. basically consisted of 3 families, the Keffer, the Peer, the Gändl, who were all intermarried, so that one may almost speak of one family with 3 surnames. Violin making petered out in mid 19th. C there with the advent of the railway, and the start of tourism, where you can earn much more than making cheap violins.

Thanks, more good information.

49 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

They are mid 19th C dirt cheap Salzkammergut violins, made for Alpine folksmusic like this 

 

This video led me to a great many more, all delightful.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Blank face said:

 

This year, when making vacancies in more far away regions was difficult, we had a lot of TV spots about "Fehrrrienn iim Ssaltsskammarrrguut".:rolleyes:

Yeah, they ran out of chineese

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Yes, most of them do now. The Goisern violin makers until about the mid 19th C. basically consisted of 3 families, the Keffer, the Peer, the Gändl, who were all intermarried, so that one may almost speak of one family with 3 surnames. Violin making petered out in mid 19th. C there with the advent of the railway, and the start of tourism, where you can earn much more than making cheap violins.

Seems they made a lot of violas, big ones, I (probably) have one thats around 44cm. Were these used in folk music of the region? Or just produced for usual viola work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.