Sign in to follow this  
PhilipKT

Anybody want a Tubbs?

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, martin swan said:

This is true of any bowmaker, but more than most with Tubbs.

A good day's work to buy it you say, but it might be a couple of years' work to sell it.

People who are outside the trade often imagine that buying something for half the retail price is somehow a triumph. Buying is easy, selling is hard.

Oh yes, I definitely know that part. It’s much easier to buy then to sell. Of course I’m not the least bit interested in buying it, I’m not sure how easily I could get it to the states anyway even if I were. Is that auction house close enough to you that you mightBe interested in going and having a look in person?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's close enough but I'm lucky to be offered great Tubbs bows by all sorts of people, and I would rather buy something for more money that I can examine at my leisure and play for a good while.

The bow itself looks 100% genuine and quite a nice sharp example. It's a pity it doesn't have its original pearl eyes, and who knows about the weight and the strength of the stick.

My main reservation is that this is on The Saleroom, you have linked to it here, every Tom Dick and Harry in the world will be thinking they can snatch up a Tubbs in a country sale, and it will sell for more than it would at a specialist London auction.

We have 7 or 8 Tubbs bows at the moment and we are always turning them down - I would rather put money into something that is less well represented in our stock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shelbow said:

Just look like Ebony no? The silver appointments are heavily tarnished which might make it look that way.

Or it was owned by a coal miner!

Well the eyes are black, but on second look, they are missing  - it's the screws that are black? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, martin swan said:

It's close enough but I'm lucky to be offered great Tubbs bows by all sorts of people, and I would rather buy something for more money that I can examine at my leisure and play for a good while.

The bow itself looks 100% genuine and quite a nice sharp example. It's a pity it doesn't have its original pearl eyes, and who knows about the weight and the strength of the stick.

My main reservation is that this is on The Saleroom, you have linked to it here, every Tom Dick and Harry in the world will be thinking they can snatch up a Tubbs in a country sale, and it will sell for more than it would at a specialist London auction.

We have 7 or 8 Tubbs bows at the moment and we are always turning them down - I would rather put money into something that is less well represented in our stock.

Martin, can I ask you about English versus French bowmaking methods?

I want to know about how the French makers cut their blanks with regard to the angle of the grain going laterally through the head?

The Hill method was for near horizontal grain, but did French makers see advantages of different angles?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Martin, can I ask you about English versus French bowmaking methods?

I want to know about how the French makers cut their blanks with regard to the angle of the grain going laterally through the head?

The Hill method was for near horizontal grain, but did French makers see advantages of different angles?

I can't answer this definitively, but it's interesting to read this section of "The Hill Bow Makers" on Frank Napier.

It implies that Napier was responsible for the innovation of slab cutting, but this was quickly seen to be a bad idea.

My own sense of French makers is that it wasn't always quarter cut, often slightly off the quarter. 

1640744470_hill21.thumb.jpeg.df7669b45ef051fa8c0168aab1a4fe7d.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I can't answer this definitively, but it's interesting to read this section of "The Hill Bow Makers" on Frank Napier.

It implies that Napier was responsible for the innovation of slab cutting, but this was quickly seen to be a bad idea.

My own sense of French makers is that it wasn't always quarter cut, often slightly off the quarter. 

1640744470_hill21.thumb.jpeg.df7669b45ef051fa8c0168aab1a4fe7d.jpeg

Thanks for the article. I am interested in the playing characteristics of different angles of cut. Quarter sawn bows feel smoother, but less lively to me than if the angle is about 45 degrees. If the angle is 60 degrees the bow is much stiffer and that is the limit beyond which I wont go in my attempts. 

The problem of broken heads with slab cut is mentioned in John Stagg's book  but I wonder if sometimes they had tiny checks which some makers couldn't see?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, martin swan said:

It's close enough but I'm lucky to be offered great Tubbs bows by all sorts of people, and I would rather buy something for more money that I can examine at my leisure and play for a good while.

The bow itself looks 100% genuine and quite a nice sharp example. It's a pity it doesn't have its original pearl eyes, and who knows about the weight and the strength of the stick.

My main reservation is that this is on The Saleroom, you have linked to it here, every Tom Dick and Harry in the world will be thinking they can snatch up a Tubbs in a country sale, and it will sell for more than it would at a specialist London auction.

We have 7 or 8 Tubbs bows at the moment and we are always turning them down - I would rather put money into something that is less well represented in our stock.

Thank you. It is always a genuine pleasure to get your insight. I’m grateful. The weight is 55 G, if that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When your talking about bows ,slab cut versus quarter or whatever !  it depends which way your describing the cut . A bow is generaly more like a violin neck ( not like a violin top or back)  but usually off by up to  30 degrees either side. When you talk of a quarter cut neck on guitars the quarter sawn types are usually opposite to a violin neck.

So  quarter sawn could mean anything depending on what direction your viewing from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

When your talking about bows ,slab cut versus quarter or whatever !  it depends which way your describing the cut . A bow is generaly more like a violin neck ( not like a violin top or back)  but usually off by up to  30 degrees either side. When you talk of a quarter cut neck on guitars the quarter sawn types are usually opposite to a violin neck.

So  quarter sawn could mean anything depending on what direction your viewing from.

Yes, agreed, it's vague terminology. That's why I ask specifically about the angle of the grain going through the head, or more specifically through the stick as it meets the head.

The Hill method of prefering a low angle seems more like an aesthetic  consideration than a structural one to me. Horizontal grain through means less stiffness up and down and more stiffness laterally, assuming a round taper. But if the angle is 45 degrees the playing characteristics are different, because there may be equal stiffness in both directions and a  lively bow.

This may be simplistic, but then so is the thinking that there is a right and a wrong way.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about the myth created by the Hills about slab being less strong and an absolute no-no. If you think about it logically, slab should actually be stronger at the head since the grains run parallel to the head. Or am I missing something?

I know that French masters made slab cut bows and my D Peccatte though technically quarter yet at an angle that it is almost slab and has a slab characteristics.

There was an article about the differences between quarter and slab cut bows and their playing characteristics published in the Strad a couple of years ago by my good friend Matthieu Besseling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some think an angl e of around 30 degrees is ideal but going in the opposite direction for a cello bow ,as the down pressure is then more or less perpendicular to the strings when the bow is tilted.

My biggest reason is to do with possible crack formation. If the rings are running vertical through the head stick from top to bottom and a crack develops its far more of a problem than when the rings are parallel or at a shallow angle to the strings ..

I `ve  seen numerous old bows  with hair line racks running vertically through the stick ,that have held for decades or even probably since shortly after being made that are perfectly stable in regards to using as a playing tool.  

Ive also seen many with rings going vertical to the strings that have lost their head (particularly just across the head stick transition point. Remember that cracks develop usually perpendicular to the ring direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2020 at 10:45 AM, martin swan said:

Aside from Jeffrey's very significant point about whether one would actually want any individual Tubbs, this one will probably sell for over £4k on the hammer because of the usual "country auction hubris", and with a 31.5% total premium that gets you to about £5,500. A day's work to go to the sale and back, then a bit of restoration needed assuming there are no concealed issues. 

So more like twice the actual cost at retail ...

 

It sold for 5K. Your prediction was almost exact. Well done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.