What is this violin? Estimate was £100 sold for £37,000

[Shelbow]

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/semley-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srse10093/lot-c14fb83a-c3ca-4e25-822e-ac22008dbb48

[Shelbow]

[deans]

I think we can be pretty sure they werent after the bows.

[chrissweden]

99% C Testore

 

Edit, i see the description also states a fragment label but the f holes, edges, lack of fluting back the scroll all make is quite obvious...

Looks like in a bad condition though, still quite cheap.

[Shelbow]

Very interesting thanks for the info.

Obviously it was a general auction house but this seems like a big miss from the auctioneers.

 

[matesic]

Blimey! I didn't spot anything like that a few miles up the road at the Gardiner Houlgate auction yesterday

[Shelbow]

11 minutes ago, matesic said:

Blimey! I didn't spot anything like that a few miles up the road at the Gardiner Houlgate auction yesterday

That auction was quite dull, the only thing I was interested in was the early viola but I didn't try to bid much as I have too much stuff already.

[martin swan]

I have to say i wouldn't have paid that much for it. If it's CG, it's a weak example in very poor condition - the f-holes look like they were cut after a heavy night on the vino collapso ..

[Delabo]

2 hours ago, martin swan said:

I have to say i wouldn't have paid that much for it. If it's CG, it's a weak example in very poor condition - the f-holes look like they were cut after a heavy night on the vino collapso ..

And just a few months ago you told me that nothing turns up at local country auctions anymore !

And its only 25 miles from your doorstep !

[martin swan]

22 minutes ago, Delabo said:

And just a few months ago you told me that nothing turns up at local country auctions anymore !

 

And you believed me?

Seriously, I don't go to local auctions but I probably should. I am hampered by the fact that a few well known figures in the UK trade regularly put things like this into country auctions, particularly if there are major condition issues. Dressing them up with a nice old Hill case and a couple of illogically downmarket bows just adds to the excitement ....

I would honestly rather pay five times as much for a clean example with a good attribution from someone I trust. 

With this particular violin, it has a couple of traits CG Testore, but on the basis of these photos I would say it's more likely not. He was one of the greatest Milanese makers - here are some CG Testore f-holes ...

 

[deans]

7 minutes ago, martin swan said:

And you believed me?

Seriously, I don't go to local auctions but I probably should. I am hampered by the fact that a few well known figures in the UK trade regularly put things like this into country auctions, particularly if there are major condition issues. Dressing them up with a nice old Hill case and a couple of illogically downmarket bows just adds to the excitement ....

I would honestly rather pay five times as much for a clean example with a good attribution from someone I trust. 

With this particular violin, it has a couple of traits CG Testore, but on the basis of these photos I would say it's more likely not. He was one of the greatest Milanese makers - here are some CG Testore f-holes ...

 

Just curious, and I dont know anything about the English country estate scene, but do you think much of this auction was staged? 

Is there a link with better pics of this fiddle?

[matesic]

Is the absence of scroll flutings not diagnostic? The f's on this one are closer

https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/browse-the-archive/makers/maker/?Maker_ID=743

[jacobsaunders]

How can anyone remotely form an opinion from such grotty small photos. I enlarged the picture of the back, but that was so out-of-focus, it was even worse, it seemed to have a strange cricket bat style button graft. I had a court case once where someone had sued an auctioneer for selling a bogus Testore. I said it wasn’t one, and thus outrageously expensive, but if it had have been one would have been ridiculously cheap. They replied with pages and pages of Testore auction results (!) so the moron expert could get an idea of Testore prices. I had to point out that the Testores were basically 5 blokes over 3 generations, 2 of which hardly did anything, and not some Chinese sweatshop. I would have thought the odds of finding a genuine Testore as a “sleeper” in some dump are exactly nil and it serves the individual who paid 37 thousand exactly right.

[Shelbow]

It just seems a bit suspect to me that there were fragments of the label inside, just enough to give the makers name...............

[martin swan]

I'm as sceptical as Jacob about this violin, and it seems most likely to be a case of "sleeper hubris" with some canny dealer cashing in (as the seller not the buyer).

The photos are nigh on impossible, but my first thought would be that the front doesn't belong to the rest of it.

[duane88]

Milanese Cheapjacks...

[Delabo]

Surely the first step to identifying it after seeing a W.E.Hill case and a scroll with the back half done in Testore style would have been a simple phone call to the auctioneer and ask them if there is a 4 digit number stamped on the end of the fretboard which is lying there detached with the other stuff.

Then it should be a  case of phoning Beares and paying a fee to find out if the violin had been through there workshop at some point in the past.

Mind you, it would still seem like a high risk strategy with such a very large sum involved. I think someone somewhere is having sleepless nights at the moment.

 

[germain]

... but it is "from the estate of a lady"... haha There was someone on eBay years ago starting their listings with similar statements. 

[Delabo]

What method of construction did Testore use ?

This one does not look BOB from the poor pictures supplied so was some sort of mold used ?

[Shelbow]

I think that this auction house still had viewings by appointment, so someone may have actually gone to see it in the flesh.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

With the top in that bad a condition, it certainly hasn't been repaired by the Hill or Beare shops!!

[PhilipKT]

3 hours ago, germain said:

... but it is "from the estate of a lady"... haha There was someone on eBay years ago starting their listings with similar statements. 

A friend of mine sold her Scarampella at Brompton‘s And it was listed in the catalog as, “property of a lady” I’ve never understood a comment like that. Who cares? It certainly Reveals nothing about the instrument.

[germain]

25 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

A friend of mine sold her Scarampella at Brompton‘s And it was listed in the catalog as, “property of a lady” I’ve never understood a comment like that. Who cares? It certainly Reveals nothing about the instrument.

The point I was making was sarcastic. Reminded me of a US seller on eBay who was making statements like this and selling crappy violins. That's all

[PhilipKT]

Just now, germain said:

The point I was making was sarcastic. Reminded me of a US seller on eBay who was making statements like this and selling crappy violins. That's all

Oh yes, I agree with you completely, I think it’s an amazingly silly thing to say. I wasn’t being contentious at all.

[J-G]

Some of us may remember the "little old lady from Pasadena" who was identified as the previous owner of hundreds of used cars.