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jandepora

Id violin - English / Scottish

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37 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

rubbish, there is no such thing as  a Dutzenarbeit with a screwed on neck, and no such thing as a screwed on neck after about 1840 at the latest, I think some people are just jealous that you found a great violin, and have to try their hardest to tear it apart.

 

Maybe you should buy it from Jandepora! He would be delighted to have found someone who appreciates its true worth ...

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On 9/14/2020 at 6:54 PM, martin swan said:

The sound is likely to be execrable with such a narrow waist, and I'm not sure this is a "baroque" violin. It seems more like a rustic c1800 to me ...

The waist is in proportion to the length. It's the upper and lower bouts that are large.

I have no idea how this would affect the sound though.

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6 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Maybe you should buy it from Jandepora! He would be delighted to have found someone who appreciates its true worth ...

I have got the price on mind!

2 minutes ago, sospiri said:

The waist is in proportion to the length. It's the upper and lower bouts that are large.

I have no idea how this would affect the sound though.

Thank you. This is an interesting point. 

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1 hour ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

In the orientation of the violin that is the subject of this thread, probably  correct... but inaccurate without that qualification. Example: the Deganis used a screw from the block into the neck into the 20th century.

Yes, when I said before 1840  I was referring to necks glued onto the ribs, not set into the blocks

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1 hour ago, sospiri said:

The waist is in proportion to the length. It's the upper and lower bouts that are large.

I have no idea how this would affect the sound though.

Well if you think of it as a full width violin with a very short back and a very narrow waist, pigeon breast arching and very open f-holes, I think it's fair to speculate that it won't sound anything like what the classical world (or the baroque world) regards as normal ...

This violin was made by someone who was entirely outside the mainstream, who hadn't done a regular VM apprenticeship, and who was not a trade maker or even a cottage industry piece worker.

To me it's 100% auto-didact English or Scottish, early to mid-19th century. Only British amateur makers habitually branded below the button (maybe it was easier to acquire a brand than print up labels) - some French 19thC makers did this but the brands were commercial commodities and the violins are always professional (Chappuy, Salomon etc).

The neck is a red herring - all we can say is that it appears not to have been mortised originally. Plenty of amateur woodworkers repaired failed necks with this screw under the fingerboard method, so I really wouldn't use this for dating.

I would agree that the scroll is much better quality than the rest of the violin and was bought in or is a later addition. Some of the woodwork on the violin is very neat, but all the details that are specific to violin-making rather than joinery are very bad.

Sorry to be rude about your violin Jandepora ...

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1 minute ago, martin swan said:

Well if you think of it as a full width violin with a very short back and a very narrow waist, pigeon breast arching and very open f-holes, I think it's fair to speculate that it won't sound anything like what the classical world (or the baroque world) regards as normal ...

This violin was made by someone who was entirely outside the mainstream, who hadn't done a regular VM apprenticeship, and who was not a trade maker or even a cottage industry piece worker.

To me it's 100% auto-didact English or Scottish, early to mid-19th century. Only British amateur makers habitually branded below the button (maybe it was easier to acquire a brand than print up labels) - some French 19thC makers did this but the brands were commercial commodities and the violins are always professional (Chappuy, Salomon etc).

The neck is a red herring - all we can say is that it appears not to have been mortised originally. Plenty of amateur woodworkers repaired failed necks with this screw under the fingerboard method, so I really wouldn't use this for dating.

I agree on every point. But I would also add one, it's fugly.

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As an adult, one sometimes must admit that one doesn’t know where a violin comes from. This can only change, if one comes across an identical one with an original label. It certainly doesn’t allow one to dogmatically claim it to be from a particular “school”. I noticed as a young man, with such unidentifiable fiddles, that the Germans will tell you that it’s English, and the English will tell you that it’s German (without saying where in Germany). Since I was asked, I must say I am more of a German in this case, and would wonder if it wasn’t more Northern rural England, or Scotland. I think Mr. Various is mistaken in thinking it that old. I would expect mid to late 19th C. from a self taught amateur with some woodworking skills. One wonders about all those railwaymen and taxidermists in the Honeywell book

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