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Goran74

Neck mortise - too deep

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I went a bit deep in this mortise, around 7,5  - 8 mm inside ribs. I was doing it  normally at 4mm. Will this have any serious impact on the violin? I will keep the proper angle at the neck I will make after. At the book Court. and John., they are not going deep. Some old violins I have seen are going much deeper. 

Thank you 

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4mm is a bit too shallow, 8mm is a bit too deep. As WB says, if won't cause any problems so long as the correct neck length is maintained, but it would be just as simple to put a shim in the mortice, or simply fill the mortice completely and recut the joint. If you do either of these, make sure that you split the wood that you use to fill/shim the mortice and make sure that if the split is a little off that you orient that so that cutting the joint is with the split, not against it.

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I don't see any structural reason to worry about it. But if it resulted from fitting and fitting until the neck is now too short, I'd fix it with one of the methods suggested above.

Also, if a neck inset like that showed up in one of the major competitions, I'd expect it to be noticed in a heartbeat. Kinda depends on what you want to do with the fiddle.

Looks like you've already got some good stuff goin' on. How far would you like to take it?

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Thank you all for the answers. Neck is not finished yet so there is no problem for the extra mm. 

I am more on the side to let it as it is. 

6 hours ago, David Burgess said:

if a neck inset like that showed up in one of the major competitions, I'd expect it to be noticed in a heartbeat

"Noticed" as structural difference or as disadvantage? It is not to be presentated in any competition, but this is not my reason to do inferior job. And this is the reason I worry about.

 

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it'll look strange, so either fix it or think up a reason why it should be that way :)  i'm not sure, but it think db is saying except for that it looks good, which is a good compliment and a good hint about what to do with it.  What's your explanation for doing it but questioning it now?  

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57 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

it'll look strange, so either fix it or think up a reason why it should be that way :)

One justification could be that having more wood in the heel increases its flexural strength against string pull, reducing the possibility of lowering the fingerboard projection in time. Also, the increased gluing surface at the button increases the strength of the joint.

It could be a good and passable justification.:)

Having said that, next time be more careful not to overdo it, because as Bill says it will be probably interpreted as a lack of mastery of the job. I also have a tendency to make deep mortice for the above reasons, but I stop at 6.5 or 7mm at most, measured from the edge.

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What do you think about possible future neck reset? With deep mortise the standard neck removal procedure would be more risky both at separating back from heel and releasing such deep mortise by "karate chop" could crack the whole thing in two by leverage to the deep sides of mortise.

I guess the OP is fitting the unworked neck block to the top/ribs assembly before back is attached, a more "engineering oriented" approach I've seen in some books.

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15 hours ago, Goran74 said:

I went a bit deep in this mortise, around 7,5  - 8 mm inside ribs. I was doing it  normally at 4mm. Will this have any serious impact on the violin? I will keep the proper angle at the neck I will make after. At the book Court. and John., they are not going deep. Some old violins I have seen are going much deeper. 

Thank you 

rps20200911_001122.jpg

rps20200911_001949.jpg

Impact? Nope. 

I just don't want to be the person to make a neck reset on your instrument.

Besides, I remember that Berbardel pere set his necks deep into the blocks. On a violin which I had seen it was 10mm from the rib surface.

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12 minutes ago, Bodacious Cowboy said:

it would be real easy to just glue a shim in the bottom of the mortise. Any reason why you're opposed to the idea?

Hello. I am not opposed. I am just more on the side of letting as it is and just try to decide. 

48 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

just don't want to be the person to make a neck reset on your instrument

4 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

next time be more careful not to overdo it, because as Bill says it will be probably interpreted as a lack of mastery of the job

Absolutely right, both. 

4 hours ago, HoGo said:

the OP is fitting the unworked neck block to the top/ribs assembly before back is attached

Exactly. I attach the neck and the back at the end.

Thank you all for your comments. They are really helpful for me. 

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19 hours ago, Goran74 said:

Hello. I am not opposed. I am just more on the side of letting as it is and just try to decide. 

 

I 'd be inclined to look at it this way: if you leave it as it is, it won't affect the function of the violin, but it'll stand out as wrong-looking to even a semi-educated eye. If you do an easy fix with a shim, no-one will notice. 

By the way, cutting the mortise before (apparently) the neck root is finished seems like a strange approach to me.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

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Just set the neck. It looks good, albeit deeper than I'd go, but still fine so long as you're not compromising the upper block depth. No more dilly-dallying. Just make another violin if you're not satisfied with this one. 

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5 hours ago, Christopher Jacoby said:

I set violins and violas 8-12 deep in the block. Good for stability, good for sound. Some asshole's gonna have SOMETHING to say about your "expertise" no matter what you do. 

You've always been a bit of a wild man. spacer.png

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4 hours ago, Goran74 said:

I decided to "correct" it. Hope, after grounds and varnish, the add to stay unnoticed.

Goran, based on the photos you have posted so far, you do appear to have some high woodworking skills.

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3 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Goran, based on the photos you have posted so far, you do appear to have some high woodworking skills.

Thank you Mr David. Your words are important to me, since I know and I appreciate your work.

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