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Juzek Master Art Label


shunkpenn
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To me the scroll still doesn’t look right. It appears to have a scroll graft but I can’t tell From the photos whether it’s fake or real. The varnish doesn’t indicate the master art, but it looks very much like the Juzeks that were just one step below. The F-holes look exactly like Those on the Gagliano MA I owned that was so pristine it still had the original bridge. 
I can’t see the label well enough to comment but I wonder if this particular violin is a “second” in some way?

(still wondering about the bow, btw)

 

Edited by PhilipKT
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8 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Thanks!  :)

Of course, but they're superbly marketed rubbish.   Perhaps they'll have a 2020 commemorative model, labeled "Made in Plague".  :ph34r:  :lol:

I’m not sure what you’re comparing them to, but I’ve never heard a bad sounding top-level Juzek. Every one has sounded very good.
I recently heard a gifted young lad play the first movement of the Elgar-a dreadful choice- in a competition on a mid-range Juzek with fake corner blocks, and it sounded wonderful. He actually won, despite the poor choice of piece.

So I’d have to ask,”Rubbish compared to what?”

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41 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I’m not sure what you’re comparing them to, but I’ve never heard a bad sounding top-level Juzek. Every one has sounded very good.
I recently heard a gifted young lad play the first movement of the Elgar-a dreadful choice- in a competition on a mid-range Juzek with fake corner blocks, and it sounded wonderful. He actually won, despite the poor choice of piece.

So I’d have to ask,”Rubbish compared to what?”

Why, to any artisanal benchmade violin, from whatever maker, of course.  :huh:  You're ignoring the POV often proclaimed here, that all mass-produced, brand named (i.e., "trade") fiddles are rubbish by definition, no matter how well that they look, sound, or may respond when played.  That POV is usually yoked alongside the opinion that good sound is worthless compared to provenance.  In the light of such wisdom, a Juzek Master Art becomes a peculiar case of an oxymoron that you can bid on.  There are currently a handful of such brands available, where a shop brand name is often treated as if it was a real maker.

You're also apparently forgetting that I habitually dip my pen in ink compounded from irony and gall, as well as that overthinking a joke ruins it.  :ph34r::lol:

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1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

Why, to any artisanal benchmade violin, from whatever maker, of course.  :huh:  You're ignoring the POV often proclaimed here, that all mass-produced, brand named (i.e., "trade") fiddles are rubbish by definition, no matter how well that they look, sound, or may respond when played.  That POV is usually yoked alongside the opinion that good sound is worthless compared to provenance.  In the light of such wisdom, a Juzek Master Art becomes a peculiar case of an oxymoron that you can bid on.  There are currently a handful of such brands available, where a shop brand name is often treated as if it was a real maker.

You're also apparently forgetting that I habitually dip my pen in ink compounded from irony and gall, as well as that overthinking a joke ruins it.  :ph34r::lol:

Well of course, any instrument made by a guy at a dusty workbench working all by himself is definitely going to be very valuable. Just think of Vuilluame, for instance. Heavens, he was productive!

But among the trash, I find the top-line Juzeks to be quite satisfying, in looks, construction and sound.

But I’m a philistine. I drink wine from a box. I have guns and a truck, until my beloved civilized me I to getting rid of it(sigh...’that damn truck,’ she used to call it....sigh) 
So what do I know?

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On 9/5/2020 at 7:32 PM, PhilipKT said:

Scroll doesn’t look like any MA I’ve seen.

whats the bow like?

Philip, the scroll with the "lip" doesn't show up on all Juzek Master Art instruments and they, MM, sold the scrolls in the white. I have encountered that particular style of scroll on a fair number of American amateur made instruments.

As far as tone is concerned, they are just another workshop instrument, and I can say with some confidence that if a Juzek MA sounds better than any other trade instrument it is the fault of the last person, or perhaps the first person, who opened the instrument and dealt with what they found.

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3 minutes ago, duane88 said:

Philip, the scroll with the "lip" doesn't show up on all Juzek Master Art instruments and they, MM, sold the scrolls in the white. I have encountered that particular style of scroll on a fair number of American amateur made instruments.

As far as tone is concerned, they are just another workshop instrument, and I can say with some confidence that if a Juzek MA sounds better than any other trade instrument it is the fault of the last person, or perhaps the first person, who opened the instrument and dealt with what they found.

Fair enough. I certainly haven’t seen them all, but every single one I have ever seen had exactly the same scroll. The varnish on this one doesn’t look quite right either, but again I’m not saying it isn’t a MA.

Regarding sound, every one I’ve ever encountered sounded very good, certainly comparable to most retail instruments I’ve seen under 5 figures.
Maybe the better quality trade instruments of that day just tended to sound good.

Another of my students acquired an unnamed German cello from around 1900. A very pretty cello I posted about a couple years ago. It was dismissed, but it sounds wonderful and I am delighted with it and so is she.
so I’m happy to investigate something in good condition from that era.

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9 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Fair enough. I certainly haven’t seen them all, but every single one I have ever seen had exactly the same scroll. The varnish on this one doesn’t look quite right either, but again I’m not saying it isn’t a MA.

As @duane88 said, not all scrolls have the "lip" you are used to seeing. The varnish, including the color, shading, and antiquing, look like typical JMA to me.

In regards to tone, the JMA's have as high a probability of sounding as good as any high-quality workshop violin produced during that period. Like the higher-quality Roths, Heberleins, Lowendalls, and Todts, these are very well-made instruments, so it isn't surprising that they will sound better on average than lower quality dutzenware, including lower quality Juzeks.

I am not particularly fond of this model, though.

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11 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

To me the scroll still doesn’t look right. It appears to have a scroll graft but I can’t tell From the photos whether it’s fake or real. The varnish doesn’t indicate the master art, but it looks very much like the Juzeks that were just one step below. The F-holes look exactly like Those on the Gagliano MA I owned that was so pristine it still had the original bridge. 
I can’t see the label well enough to comment but I wonder if this particular violin is a “second” in some way?

(still wondering about the bow, btw)

 

The bow is decent and I’m still working on identifying the stamp. Here are some (poor quality) photos..... it’s all I have until  I return home. (I forgot to mention it looks like in HR Pfretzschner)

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Edited by shunkpenn
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21 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Actually the bow looks like a rough trade bow, maybe stamped "Bausch" or something alike with a worn frog.

Is it possible that they left out date and number to safe the time for writing and sold it a bit cheaper? (time is money):)

At least it’s not marked Bausch.  See photo. 

1277E74E-2662-456D-9172-3AC794BBABC7.jpeg

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Bausch is a placeholder for any trade stamp. Though the only letter I can decipher is a C close to the end.;)

The chances to get a bow of value with such violins is extremely low. I even have (and many others probably, too) a big heap of junk bows in the corner, all once coming in with more or less good quality violins.

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2 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

As @duane88 said, not all scrolls have the "lip" you are used to seeing. The varnish, including the color, shading, and antiquing look like typical JMA to me.

In regards to tone, the JMA's have as high a probability of sounding good as any high-quality workshop violin produced during that period. Like the higher-quality Roths, Heberleins, Lowendalls, and Todts, these are very well-made instruments, so it isn't surprising that they will sound better on average than lower quality dutzenware, including lower quality Juzeks.

I am not particularly fond of this model, though.

In regards to factory instrument sounding good.  I recently picked up a hen th heberlein jr  that sounds  glorious.  I would imagine the top line factory fiddles sound good because they used the best or better tonewoods available. 

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1 minute ago, Blank face said:

To compare a (good) Heberlein with Juzek sounds like an insinuation. These weren't "factory" nor trade.

Lol no insinuation.  I just a comment.  I really hadn’t researched into the heberleins violins much.  I know that the one I got is hands down better that the ma Juzek I had.  I sold that and don’t plan on selling the heberlein ha 

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10 minutes ago, Blank face said:

To compare a (good) Heberlein with Juzek sounds like an insinuation. These weren't "factory" nor trade (though they sold some trade stuff as "shop made").

So, how would you describe the making process of the heberlein shop for say a grade vii or viii. Not a trick question just curious 

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44 minutes ago, Blank face said:

To compare a (good) Heberlein with Juzek sounds like an insinuation. These weren't "factory" nor trade (though they sold some trade stuff as "shop made").

I don't think so. As soon as you start adding adjectives such as "good," I will say without hesitation that a "good" Juzek Master Art can sound just as "good" as a "good" Heberlien.

I own a 1914 Heinrich Th. Heberlein (not workshop of) and a 1936 Juzek Master Art (Guarnerius model), and they are both excellent-sounding violins. One might prefer one tone to the other (the JMA is a bit darker), but they are both very very nice violins. 

I understand that these are my own examples and the sample size is 1, but I have also owned good Roths, a Herman Todt, and a top-of-the-line Lowendall (the "Glory" Model), and my JMA will go head-to-head with any of them.

Maybe my JMA is exceptional, but they do seem to have a good reputation and are priced accordingly by dealers.

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1 hour ago, Jwillis said:

So, how would you describe the making process of the heberlein shop for say a grade vii or viii. Not a trick question just curious 

It’s simply that they made their own and bought in the trade stuff from the „usual“. Surely there was a decline in the way that they later (can‘t tell a particular date) only sold the trade instruments coming from elsewhere.
The „good „ ones are showing always superior workmanship, very nice varnish, fluted f wings, position pins and so on, relative easily to tell apart.

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42 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

own a 1914 Heinrich Th. Heberlein (not workshop of) and a 1936 Juzek Master Art (Guarnerius model), and they are both excellent-sounding violins. One might prefer one tone to the other (the JMA is a bit darker), but they are both very very nice violins. 

As usual, I‘m not talking about „tone“ here. That’s a completely different matter, where it might be difficult/impossible to get any consensus.

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Ha Ha, that's good! Such Rare, Much Plague! I think it may stick even though it is gravely sacrilegious. Then there is the risk of invoking the angry ghost of the Old Man himself, John Juzek Senior. Legend has it that his angry ghost will appear naked at the foot of your bed holding a chisel and a gouge!

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1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

I don't think so. As soon as you start adding adjectives such as "good," I will say without hesitation that a "good" Juzek Master Art can sound just as "good" as a "good" Heberlien.

I own a 1914 Heinrich Th. Heberlein (not workshop of) and a 1936 Juzek Master Art (Guarnerius model), and they are both excellent-sounding violins. One might prefer one tone to the other (the JMA is a bit darker), but they are both very very nice violins. 

I understand that these are my own examples and the sample size is 1, but I have also owned good Roths, a Herman Todt, and a top-of-the-line Lowendall (the "Glory" Model), and my JMA will go head-to-head with any of them.

Maybe my JMA is exceptional, but they do seem to have a good reputation and are priced accordingly by dealers.

I have a 1920s Juzek MA (Strad model). Among all I have (>10), I have been playing that Juzek MA way more frequently than any others. Indeed, I am playing it now.

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On 9/5/2020 at 10:25 PM, shunkpenn said:

Not the best pics but you get the idea. I think it has all the features of a pre-war fiddle. The brass inserts are missing from the pegs. 

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While should not be generalized and my knowledge is very limited, I have not seen a Juzek MA has the location pin in the back. Does this one has pin near the ebony button crown in the back?

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1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

...........Juzek Master Art............seem to have a good reputation and are priced accordingly by dealers.

Not exactly.   IMHO, the violin market is an emergent property of predator-prey-scavenger interactions involving herd behavior, pack behavior, and the the contributions of those of us who circle serenely above the fracas, patiently waiting for the inevitable carcasses to appear.  :ph34r:  ;)  :lol:

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