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Violawannabe

Leon Mougenot Gauche ID

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5 hours ago, duane88 said:

The font of the letters on the label is not, to my eye, correct. 

Maybe he used a different type of label for the bought in stuff from Schönbach?;)

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15 hours ago, duane88 said:

The font of the letters on the label is not, to my eye, correct. 

Thank you. That's my thought too. I have never seen an LM label like this except once on eBay....  

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11 hours ago, Blank face said:

Maybe he used a different type of label for the bought in stuff from Schönbach?;)

 

10 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Or someone put it in for him, many years after he was dead.

or perhaps both...

I posted last night from my device, and the pic were too small to see anything of value regarding the violin, but I can't say that it looks French, and agree with the Germanic suggestion.

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For me this is a Mirecourt violin, and Léon Mougenot died in 1954 so it's credible.

However, the scroll is a bought in MK/Sch scroll - but that doesn't mean the violin isn't as labelled. A Léon Mougenot Gauché is a rather basic trade violin at best.

The thing that bothers me is that the 1 of 1934 doesn't have an upward stroke, which is decidedly un-French. But that in itself wouldn't be enough to dismiss it as fake.

Overall I would suspect a Mirecout trade violin of the period with a bought-in scroll and a slightly optimistic label.

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3 hours ago, martin swan said:

For me this is a Mirecourt violin, and Léon Mougenot died in 1954 so it's credible.

However, the scroll is a bought in MK/Sch scroll - but that doesn't mean the violin isn't as labelled. A Léon Mougenot Gauché is a rather basic trade violin at best.

The thing that bothers me is that the 1 of 1934 doesn't have an upward stroke, which is decidedly un-French. But that in itself wouldn't be enough to dismiss it as fake.

Overall I would suspect a Mirecout trade violin of the period with a bought-in scroll and a slightly optimistic label.

I have a similar mougenot made for the American market in the 1930s.   The scroll and neck were obviously made by a different set of set of hands than the body.   I’m on the road but will try to post some photos of mine tomorrow evening 

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9 hours ago, martin swan said:

For me this is a Mirecourt violin, and Léon Mougenot died in 1954 so it's credible.

However, the scroll is a bought in MK/Sch scroll - but that doesn't mean the violin isn't as labelled. A Léon Mougenot Gauché is a rather basic trade violin at best.

The thing that bothers me is that the 1 of 1934 doesn't have an upward stroke, which is decidedly un-French. But that in itself wouldn't be enough to dismiss it as fake.

Overall I would suspect a Mirecout trade violin of the period with a bought-in scroll and a slightly optimistic label.

I didn't even know that scroll can be bought in! I have the same thought about the hand writing too. :)

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10 hours ago, smf said:

I have a similar mougenot made for the American market in the 1930s.   The scroll and neck were obviously made by a different set of set of hands than the body.   I’m on the road but will try to post some photos of mine tomorrow evening 

I find it astonishing that anyone could imagine that a French factory like Mougenot produced any instruments made by a single “set of hands”

To me the label of the OP violin reeks of Microsoft

http://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/mougenot.htm#1921

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In my eyes the somehow wobbly rib joints seem to point more to Schönbach; it's not 100% clear to decide from the photos, but I won't even exclude that a French firm could have sold Czech made instruments with their labels, for export purpose and especially when everything was destroyed in Mirecourt after the war. But I agree also that the label looks very suspicious.

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10 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I find it astonishing that anyone could imagine that a French factory like Mougenot produced any instruments made by a single “set of hands”

To me the label of the OP violin reeks of Microsoft

http://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/mougenot.htm#1921

I worded my short response too quickly.  Of course the violin was made by many people, It's just that the Scroll and neck looked even more out of place on my violin. I'm familiar with the information in your link.  My violin is a trade instrument, and I am happy to have it.  I have a nice WM Lewis and sons German trade bow to go with it.  Lewis and sons imported many many violins and bows.

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“Gauche“ means crude and unsophisticated. Does it mean something else in this context?

I can’t imagine someone deliberately labeling his own work as crude…

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It isn’t ‘Gauche’, but ‘Gauché’.

And in any case is it not just his name? It doesn’t ‘mean’ anything. 

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35 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

“Gauche“ means crude and unsophisticated. Does it mean something else in this context?

I can’t imagine someone deliberately labeling his own work as crude…

Gauche means “left” ... but as Rudall points out, you are missing  an accent!

with the accent it means left-handed ... hardly a major crime for a VM.

 

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

Gauche means “left” ... but as Rudall points out, you are missing  an accent!

with the accent it means left-handed ... hardly a major crime for a VM.

 

So that just means that the violin maker was left-handed?

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Actually "left-handed" is gaucher, with silent r, though maybe not every violin maker knew that in the old days.  There's no word gauché in my 1400-page French dictionary.  

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There is a lot of wide angle deformation in the pictures , It's difficult for me to judge much from those picture, but one thing that I do not like for a Mougenot is the f holes and the huge gap in the area where the  "," meant the  "I" , (I don't recall the proper terminology)

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On 9/1/2020 at 1:24 PM, jacobsaunders said:

I find it astonishing that anyone could imagine that a French factory like Mougenot produced any instruments made by a single “set of hands”

To me the label of the OP violin reeks of Microsoft

http://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/mougenot.htm#1921

Well even at Laberte/JTL they had dedicated part of the workshop where the best worker made the violin entirely .  And they really were factories compared to Mougenot.

ps: the label actually looks a lot better than crappy   labels  found in genuine Mougenot violin.

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On 8/31/2020 at 11:26 PM, martin swan said:

A Léon Mougenot Gauché is a rather basic trade violin at best.
 

I'll politely  disagree :) some of them are as good as Dieudonné  and I would place most of them on par with Colin Mezin Son's based on the father's model. and above CM's son and grand son's

 

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Btw "gauché" was his mother maiden name.
and unlike what it could have been it does not takes root in "lefty"
Gauché / Gaucher are local variations of  Vaucher / Vaucher / Vaucherot
and are of German origin ! coming from come from "Walhari" (walh = foreign + hari = army).
 

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On 8/31/2020 at 11:26 PM, martin swan said:

The thing that bothers me is that the 1 of 1934 doesn't have an upward stroke, which is decidedly un-French. But that in itself wouldn't be enough to dismiss it as fake.

I have seen strait 1 on label (not this label , the usual one)  found in  several 100% genuine Mougenot Gauché

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If anyone wants to know more about the various grades of violin either made or sold by Leon Mougenot, Viaduct Violins has a good article.

dieudonne and later collin mezin are sll workshop/trade violins

sorry for the lack of accents - on an iPhone

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