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Is it a big violin or a 14inch viola?


phillip77
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54 minutes ago, phillip77 said:

 

For what it's worth, some of you are doing a marvellous job of living up to everything we would expect from those in the second hand instrument business, looking down your noses with your snide comments and belittling attitude. 

This is the great philosophical problem of our time isn't it ...

People who know what they are talking about tell someone less qualified that they are wrong, and the response is "I think we've all had enough of experts".

You have hoist yourself pretty thoroughly by your own petard with your ill-founded suspicions of foul play, your blanket condemnation of all dealers, and your sexist metaphors, all laughably inappropriate to a forum like Maestronet.

When we point out these issues, this somehow confirms your belief that all dealers are supercilious crooks.

We have tried to explain in objective terms why there is an almost zero chance that the violin in question is really a viola, but you are living in a parallel universe.

 

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@phillip77

I recommend that you buy a good-quality name-brand violin produced and/or sold by companies that produce different models with published MSRPs. There are some nice-looking and good-sounding violins available in your price range, and you won't have to worry if it is a cut-down viola or anything!

Then you will know for certain what you have and what the published price was.

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On 9/1/2020 at 6:59 PM, Spelman said:

If I bought a fixed roof car and I get the roof removed and the car converted to a convertible, then I have a convertible and not a "convertible," no?

"i want this to be a convertible"

"it's not convertable"

"i know.  i wanted it converted"

"it's not convertable"

"you aren't listening"

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12 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

@phillip77

I recommend that you buy a good-quality name-brand violin produced and/or sold by companies that produce different models with published MSRPs. 

Then you will know for certain what you have and what the published price was.

How is that certain when the dealer could still have put a fake label into a cheap cut-down viola?

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12 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

@phillip77

There are some nice-looking and good-sounding violins available in your price range, and you won't have to worry if it is a cut-down viola or anything!

Then you will know for certain what you have 

For all we know, these big modern workshops use exactly the same bodies for violins and 3/4 violas, just put different strings and bridges on them. How can you really know that the instrument in your hand is a violin and not a small viola?

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On 8/30/2020 at 2:35 PM, phillip77 said:

I was trying some fiddles at a shop yesterday.

Dealer says its German and mid 19th century. I measured the back and it's about 14 inches and a quarter.

So I'm thinking, was this actually built as a small viola and he's trying to pass it off as a violin? 

 

To be honest, I'd just buy it. At least you have a story to tell now.

Worst case scenario: It was once a cello, which was cut down into a viola, then later cut down again into a violin. Just think about how many notes it must have played in past lives, should be properly played in now :)

 

Edit: The really worst case scenario is that it was once a boat, which was cut down to a make a bass, then cut down further to a make a cello, then cut down again to make a viola, and finally reduced in size to make a 3/4 viola...

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4 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

It’s been almost a week now, Phillip’s approval period will be coming to an end.

You're absolutely correct and it is going back.

Thanks for all your help, showing me that I am indeed a clueless idiot who shouldn't ask questions and fully deserves to be belittled. 

There are several UK dealers that have popped up here with snide comments and made absolutely damn sure that I'll never consider buying anything from them in the future. 

Martin Swan. Some representative of Ayres violins in Manchester, etc. 

There are a number of other helpful people who have messaged me privately to say ignore the snobs and the clique, and given me details of dealers who might be a little more accomodating. They're the ones I'll be visiting in the next few weeks. 

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39 minutes ago, phillip77 said:

Y

There are several UK dealers that have popped up here with snide comments and made absolutely damn sure that I'll never consider buying anything from them in the future. 

Martin Swan. Some representative of Ayres violins in Manchester, etc. 

 

 

I bet they are pretty upset

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Hmm.  I am glad you got some advice that you value.

The question of which expert is actually an expert crops up regularly. When you are new (to anything) it's very difficult to tell between a real expert and a self-styled expert.

It's my experience though, that 'real experts' don't usually bill themselves as 'real experts'.  They don't have to.  They just are...

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44 minutes ago, phillip77 said:

Thanks for all your help, showing me that I am indeed a clueless idiot who shouldn't ask questions and fully deserves to be belittled.

 

Not at all, but striding cockily into this dealer's den and pelting everyone with abuse was probably not the wisest approach.  I've seen many a more clueless poster ask much less informed questions, yet get a much more agreeable welcome.  :)

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20 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Not at all, but striding cockily into this dealer's den... 

Absolute jokes. It's a public forum. Yet some of you clearly think it's your "domain" and your comment just demonstrates the prevailing attitude. 

What happened was somebody came along and asked a genuine question in good faith. One of the very first comments was "this just shows your inexperience..." 

And then you all spent a week masturbating each other over your collective "wisdom". 

It's embarrassing. 

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24 minutes ago, Rue said:

When you are new (to anything) it's very difficult to tell between a real expert and a self-styled expert.

I've played the fiddle for most of my 40 odd years. My father played it before me. 

I'm hardly "new". But you're absolutely right, it's very difficult to tell the difference between one con man and another when they all look very similar. 

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24 minutes ago, phillip77 said:

I've played the fiddle for most of my 40 odd years. My father played it before me. 

I'm hardly "new". But you're absolutely right, it's very difficult to tell the difference between one con man and another when they all look very similar. 

Well...that's not quite what I was getting at...:rolleyes:

And playing the fiddle is also not quite the same as buying a fiddle...

I can both drive and buy a car...doesn't mean I can fine-tune the engine or figure out if the odometre was turned back...

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31 minutes ago, phillip77 said:

Absolute jokes. It's a public forum. Yet some of you clearly think it's your "domain" and your comment just demonstrates the prevailing attitude. 

What happened was somebody came along and asked a genuine question in good faith. One of the very first comments was "this just shows your inexperience..." 

And then you all spent a week masturbating each other over your collective "wisdom". 

It's embarrassing. 

I'm giving you a troll rating of 9/10 well done.

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23 minutes ago, Rue said:

Well...that's not quite what I was getting at...:rolleyes:

And playing the fiddle is also not quite the same as buying a fiddle...

I can both drive and buy a car...doesn't mean I can fine-tune the engine or figure out if the odometre was turned back...

You're absolutely correct. But anyone who has driven a car for long enough will know when something doesn't feel right. And if you take it to enough garages you'll get a whiff of when someone is being economical with the truth.

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21 minutes ago, sospiri said:

I'm giving you a troll rating of 9/10 well done.

Mate, seriously, grow up. I've driven a good few hours to look at violins at this particular shop. I was really looking forward to it and did enjoy playing lots of different instruments while I was there. 

I took one home on trial but then had some questions about it, so I came here to get some expert opinion. 

Just because I've said things you don't like doesn't mean I'm a "troll". 

Look back through my posts, I've been in the market for a new instrument for months. 

 

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