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outofnames

Garner Wilson bow?

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

I'm not so dubious about this bow ... on balance I think the stick is probably right and the frog maybe not.

I dont know about you but personally ive seen a few of Garner`s later bows that look very like the op bow.  It doesnt look absolutely totally wrong to me like others are suggesting. Some of his sticks are a bit odd looking due to staining  process but for some reason this one looks like abeille  and i dont think he`d make a silver mounted abeille. 

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24 minutes ago, Three13 said:

The lighting in the photos is such that it’s hard to judge what the wood is, but I think I see pernambuco cell structure here:

 

214607E9-6EE5-45EF-95D2-0B0B93E87480.jpeg

It's not Abeille wood or pernambuco  it's Ipe. Blank face was right first time.

 

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6 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

I dont know about you but personally ive seen a few of Garner`s later bows that look very like the op bow.  It doesnt look absolutely totally wrong to me like others are suggesting. 

I agree

I bought quite  a few bows from Garner late in his life. He was suffering from cancer towards the end and I think he was pretty hard up financially.

They all played well but the workmanship was that of an elderly and infirm maker. I liked him and I feel a loyalty to him but his work wasn’t consistent.

However, I don’t think he used bought in parts and I am quite sure he worked alone.

Some things about this bow are troublesome - the lapping for instance is horrible and couldn’t possibly be his. But the wood and the head shape are credible for me - the frog most likely from something else though I’m not 100%. I have a lot of photos back at the office of later bows of his but right at this minute I don’t have access to them ...

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10 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I agree

I bought quite  a few bows from Garner late in his life. He was suffering from cancer towards the end and I think he was pretty hard up financially.

They all played well but the workmanship was that of an elderly and infirm maker. I liked him and I feel a loyalty to him but his work wasn’t consistent.

However, I don’t think he used bought in parts and I am quite sure he worked alone.

Some things about this bow are troublesome - the lapping for instance is horrible and couldn’t possibly be his. But the wood and the head shape are credible for me - the frog most likely from something else though I’m not 100%. I have a lot of photos back at the office of later bows of his but right at this minute I don’t have access to them ...

Could it not be that the lapping has just come undone during extended playing and then been badly taped back in place temporarily or is it also the quality of the wire used that looks out of place?

I only ask because I have seen this kind of temp repair on a few bows used by students at some conservatoires in an emergency.

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On 8/23/2020 at 4:41 PM, Blank face said:

That was a joke. Dörfler is a synonym for cheaply made Bubenreuth factory bows. The G Wilson brand is hilarious, too, someone applied it very roughly with single letters.

They are using some sort of cheap pernambuco which can be easily confused with Abeille, at least at photos. I'm doubting that the adjuster is original to the rest; it could be silver while the frog mountings appear to be nickel, and I've never seen such an adjuster style with this kind of bows.

I've been doing some research lately and  I am sure it's the same wood that millions of student bows have been made from in the last 20+ years in China, Ipé. It's as stiff as abeille wood, that is they are  both stiffer than Pernambuco. 

Chinese Ipé bows are stained and lacquered to look like Pernambuco and sometimes the effect is quite convincing but the grain is much more regular than Pernambuco.

Obviously a $50 'Pernambuco' bow on Ebay is not Pernambuco, but it will be a very good bow.  

The OP bow is not lacquered so it has a different look to what is normally seen.

 

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1 hour ago, martin swan said:

I agree

I bought quite  a few bows from Garner late in his life. He was suffering from cancer towards the end and I think he was pretty hard up financially.

They all played well but the workmanship was that of an elderly and infirm maker. I liked him and I feel a loyalty to him but his work wasn’t consistent.

However, I don’t think he used bought in parts and I am quite sure he worked alone.

Some things about this bow are troublesome - the lapping for instance is horrible and couldn’t possibly be his. But the wood and the head shape are credible for me - the frog most likely from something else though I’m not 100%. I have a lot of photos back at the office of later bows of his but right at this minute I don’t have access to them ...

I hope you can share those photos soon. I am very interested. 

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8 hours ago, martin swan said:

I agree

I bought quite  a few bows from Garner late in his life. He was suffering from cancer towards the end and I think he was pretty hard up financially.

They all played well but the workmanship was that of an elderly and infirm maker. I liked him and I feel a loyalty to him but his work wasn’t consistent.

However, I don’t think he used bought in parts and I am quite sure he worked alone.

Some things about this bow are troublesome - the lapping for instance is horrible and couldn’t possibly be his. But the wood and the head shape are credible for me - the frog most likely from something else though I’m not 100%. I have a lot of photos back at the office of later bows of his but right at this minute I don’t have access to them ...

Thanks for explaining this. It's answering a lot of questions reg. the inconsistency of the given examples.

Ironically just the frog (shape and material) and especially the adjuster button made me think that it could be a real Garner after a while. A big part of the odd appearance at first sight is surely caused by the odd lapping. But an original lapping can be replaced for many reasons and within an hour or less, or it's just badly rewound.

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This has been an interesting read for me, thanks to all that have replied.

For what it's worth, the bow plays and feels a bit on the heavy side and is certainly less flexible than my regular bow.  This probably doesn't help much for identification, but it feels...I don't know, solid and blocky.

This isn't a negative description, just my impression. Also, the space for my ring finger in the frog is quite limited.  Not a bad thing, just how it is.

 

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On 8/22/2020 at 7:22 PM, outofnames said:

My regular bow is being rehaired and I'm trying a few different bows for fun until it's finished.  My luthier sent me home with 6 to try out but, as he often doesn't, didn't tell me anything about them. 

I've taken a liking to the one I've attached photos of, stamped Garner Wilson.

Anyone care to take a look at the photos and comment? 

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something to compare https://www.amberviolins.com/lot/139-viola-bow-by-garner-wilson-late-20th-c/?v=79cba1185463

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10 hours ago, outofnames said:

For what it's worth, the bow plays and feels a bit on the heavy side and is certainly less flexible than my regular bow.  This probably doesn't help much for identification, but it feels...I don't know, solid and blocky.

I have only played a couple, but to me they all felt "soggy", sort of dull in the hand, which isn't too different.

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On 8/26/2020 at 8:21 PM, martin swan said:

Or 4 examples in our sold archive - you will find all the features of the OP bow if you look through them, including the mashed brand and the 2 pins in the bottom plate ...

https://www.martinswanviolins.com/sold-items/sold-bows/

Martin can you tell us about angle of grain through the head in the many bows of famous makers you have seen and sold please?

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