Joseph/Michael Haydn birthplace in Rohrau

[Violadamore]

2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I would almost pay to watch you use the kitchen

I wouldn't trust it (or its current reconstruction's accuracy).  The house burned down twice while Haydn was living there. 

Thanks much for this interesting series of posts.  

[jacobsaunders]

1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

 The house burned down twice while Haydn was living there. 

No great surprise if he had to fry his Wiener Schnitzel on a bonfire

[scordatura]

For those who might be interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_residences_of_Joseph_Haydn

Nice thread.

[jacobsaunders]

19 minutes ago, scordatura said:

For those who might be interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_residences_of_Joseph_Haydn

Nice thread.

Blimey, you want to keep me busy?

[Violadamore]

45 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Blimey, you want to keep me busy?

Here's one that's near you.  https://www.wienmuseum.at/en/locations/haydnhaus   

[gowan]

We visited Haydn's house in Vienna, where he lived after leaving the employ of Esterhazy.  Very impressive.  Indeed he must have been wealthy just to own a house in central Vienna.

[Rue]

34 minutes ago, gowan said:

We visited Haydn's house in Vienna, where he lived after leaving the employ of Esterhazy.  Very impressive.  Indeed he must have been wealthy just to own a house in central Vienna.

Did he own it?

Long-term rentals are more common.

[jacobsaunders]

5 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Here's one that's near you.  https://www.wienmuseum.at/en/locations/haydnhaus   

Thanks, thats 16km away, so a future Sunday outing, would you like me to report?

[Violadamore]

1 minute ago, jacobsaunders said:

Thanks, thats 16km away, so a future Sunday outing, would you like me to report?

Of course.  You do it so well. 

[jacobsaunders]

On Sunday we went to Eisenstadt again. I discovered that there is a map for tourists with a “Haydn Pfad” (path) marked for tourists to follow his footsteps (perhaps Philip KT, should they let Americans in again).

It starts at the blue No.1, the Haydn church where he has his own Mausoleum. Haydn died in Vienna in May 1809, but due to the political situation at the time, it took until1820 until his body was repatriated to Eisenstadt, where it was discovered that his head was missing! Two 19^th C neurologists, Joseph Karl Rosenbaum and Johann Peter had stolen the head to test out some neurological theory of the epoch (Gallschen Schädellehre). After prince Esterhasy kicked up a great fuss, the Viennese sent him a head to go with it. It was though later discovered that it was the wrong head! (a bit like violins), since the Geselschaft der Musikfreunde in Vienna managed to buy the genuine head in 1895. After further kerfuffle, Prince Dr. Paul Esterhazy got the real head back in 1932 (his 200^th birthday) and built him a mausoleum in this Haydn church, where he lies until this day.

 

[jacobsaunders]

We visited the Haydn House, the blue No. 8, a few weeks ago (see above). This time we went to see his allotment (Krätergarten), blue No. 10, which was unfortunately shut. There is a two story wooden house on the allotment, with low head bumping doors, which was surely used for more that storing gardening tools. We took a picture over the fence

[jacobsaunders]

As promised to VdA above, we visited Haydn’s house in Gumpendorf (Vienna) yesterday (18.10.2020) https://www.wienmuseum.at/en/locations/haydnhaus

Haydn spent his last 12 years here. Gumpendorf today is in in the 5^th district of central Vienna, but in Haydn's time, it was a rural village outside of Vienna, with vineyards, and vegetable agriculture. It only became more industrial and urban in the 19^th C. Haydn bought the house as a single story building, and had the upper floor built.

The museum gives one little insight into how he lived, but is more concerned with displaying his later works. Of the few personal things is his spinet, and his fortepiano. One is told that his method of working was to doodle around on his fortepiano in the morning, and to try and get any ideas that he had had into a score in the afternoon.

Haydn, as an old man sometimes complained of tiredness, and with the recent experience of Mozart's unpublished and unfinished work having been postumously auctioned off at a high price a few years before, Haydn was busy selling earlier unfinished stuff as best he could. There was even the suggestion that he had sold the same pieces to more than one publisher, and even Beethoven is quoted in this context as having said, that Haydn had already prostituted himself enough.

There is the original probate inventory displayed in a glass case on the wall, which shows us that Haydn was a wealthy man. What struck me the most was his Parrot, which was listed amongst his artefacts. He had bought it 18 years previously as a grown bird in London, and had “coached” it all this time. It was valued at 100fl and put up for auction, where is sold for a stupendous 1,450fl. If this was because someone hoped to learn some secret Haydn tunes, or if it was a sign of the inflation of the time, that lead to the State of Austria going bankrupt a few years later, remains an object of speculation

[jacobsaunders]

On the way home, we dropped in on the Schubert birthplace in the Nußdorferstrasse https://www.wienmuseum.at/de/standorte/schubert-geburtshaus

Schubert was born here, but only lived here in his infant years. He was one of 14 siblings, and the first floor flat only consisted of a Kitchen, and one medium sized room and one large one. One wonders where they kept so many babies. The hi-Tech kitchen of the period reminds of Haydn’s in Eisenstadt above, basically a chimney with a wide catchment, under which one could light an indoor bonfire. There is a well in the garden, to fetch water, and one is told that there was a pit latrine, also in the garden (no longer there).

Of the personal things, there is his fortepiano, his brothers guittar, and his glasses. Otherwise there are many  reports of his work, and what company he kept. Right next door is another room dedicated to Adalbert Stifter https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adalbert_Stifter

[jacobsaunders]

On the way home from the Schubert birthplace, I was thinking of going to Beethovens place in Heiligenstadt https://www.wienmuseum.at/de/standorte/beethoven-museum but decided it would be a bit much to ask of Leopold, to get dragged around three dead peoples houses in one day

[Rue]

Haydn had a parrot! 

[Violadamore]

10 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

On the way home from the Schubert birthplace, I was thinking of going to Beethovens place in Heiligenstadt https://www.wienmuseum.at/de/standorte/beethoven-museum but decided it would be a bit much to ask of Leopold, to get dragged around three dead peoples houses in one day

Thank you!!!  You did a more than amazing effort as it is. 

[jacobsaunders]

Recently, I criticised Philip for having nothing useful to do in his spare time, other than scroll through crumby auction catalogues, and he said he really didn't have anything better to do because it was so cold outside. Rather than making some (obvious) sarcastic remarks, I thought I would lead by example, and went yesterday to the Beethoven museum in the Probusgasse in Heiligenstatt, which is just down the road.

Heiligenstatt, or more exactly Grinzing, in Beethoven's day was one vast vineyard, with the odd church, and was a spa, where infirm people went for the good air, and spring water. It is also well known for the “Heiligenstatter Testament”, a long letter which Beethoven wrote in 1802 of his frustration with his deafness. Since the early 20^th C it has become a large staunchly working class social housing estate which it still is.

When I got there, there was a sign on the door, that it was closed until further notice due to the bloody pandemic, although I had got the impression from the web site https://www.wienmuseum.at/de/standorte/beethoven-museum that it had re-opened on the 9^th February. On the way back to the car, which I had parked just down the road by the church I discovered that there was another house there, next to the church, in which Beethoven lived in 1817. We photographed it quickly, and piled back into the car, because it was pretty parky. I will go and investigate that when the weather is nicer.

[sospiri]

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

 On the way back to the car, which I had parked just down the road by the church I discovered that there was another house there, next to the church, in which Beethoven lived in 1817. We photographed it quickly, and piled back into the car, because it was pretty parky. I will go and investigate that when the weather is nicer.

I wonder if Philip will have any luck putting "pretty parky" into google translate?

Also Tardis at the start of the thread? Or is Dr Who world famous now?

[romberg flat]

At the link below is a list of all of Beethoven's dwellings in Vienna and the surrounding area, so that Jacob or anyone else who has ambitions can make a tour in the past time without the TARDIS.

https://www.virtualvienna.net/beethovens-dwellings/  

I personally once just stood in front of the house at Ungargasse 5 where, as it stands on a memorial plaque, Beethoven finished his 9th Symphony. In the house is not a museum but a pub with the significant name BIERTEUFEL.

   

Until I visit Vienna again I have to be satisfied with my personal Beethoven’s corner in my office where I keep some scores from his time that I, believe it or not, purchased on EBay. Above them on the wall hangs a portrait of the Master deep in his thoughts.

            

Hofmeister c.1808                                                                                                         Bronsvic 1820

[Rue]

Okay...all very cool! 

But I'm not convinced that the painting shows him deep in thought. He just looks angry and constipated and in dire need of a glass of prune juice.

[PhilipKT]

One thing that constantly amazes me about European history is that it goes back so far. American history, such as it is, starts with the first colony in Florida in the 16-somethings, or Jamestown on 1607.

Another terrible thing about America is that when someone wants to build a parking lot or an apartment building on some famous location, where there is already an old building of historical importance, they petition the city Council for permission( and offer large gifts in addition)and then Bulldoze The historical object so they can put up their damn parking lot. Occasionally, there is pushback, in which case they move the building to some vacant lot somewhere and then pat them selves on the back.

The Alamo is the most sacred building in Texas history, and yet you go to San Antonio to take a look at it, and 15 feet away on all sides are fast food restaurants.

It is shameful how America treats its history. I am gratified that the Europeans have more respect.

By the way, there is a story about Bruckner and Haydn’s head. It seems that before head and body were reunited, Bruckner had access to the skull, and snatched it out of somebody’s hand and had a conversation with it before it was snatched back.

Haydn’s reply is not recorded.

[sospiri]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Okay...all very cool! 

But I'm not convinced that the painting shows him deep in thought. He just looks angry and constipated and in dire need of a glass of prune juice.

He's thinking " I wish the artist would hurry up, how long do I have to sit here looking introspective?"

It was worth it though dont y'all think?

[romberg flat]

On 2/17/2021 at 6:20 PM, Rue said:

But I'm not convinced that the painting shows him deep in thought. He just looks angry and constipated and in dire need of a glass of prune juice.

Ever since I read this comment, I can't get a blasphemous scene out of my head: 

One evening the Master came to the BIERTAUFEL bar.

“Ein großes Bier bitte. Oder noch besser, gib mir ein großes Glas Pflaumensaft, es fühlt sich nicht sehr gut an.”

He drank his juice and climbed the stairs to his apartment above the bar. For the next hour or two the barman heard music coming from the Master's apartment. But it didn’t sound as nice as ever, and suddenly stopped.

After about half an hour the bar was fulfilled with divine sounds of the Ode to Joy. 

See what you did? Every next time I look at Master portrait, I will see that scene. Shame on you! 

[Rue]

You're welcome! 

[jacobsaunders]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:59 AM, jacobsaunders said:

Recently, I criticised Philip for having nothing useful to do in his spare time, other than scroll through crumby auction catalogues, and he said he really didn't have anything better to do because it was so cold outside. Rather than making some (obvious) sarcastic remarks, I thought I would lead by example, and went yesterday to the Beethoven museum in the Probusgasse in Heiligenstatt, which is just down the road.

Heiligenstatt, or more exactly Grinzing, in Beethoven's day was one vast vineyard, with the odd church, and was a spa, where infirm people went for the good air, and spring water. It is also well known for the “Heiligenstatter Testament”, a long letter which Beethoven wrote in 1802 of his frustration with his deafness. Since the early 20^th C it has become a large staunchly working class social housing estate which it still is.

When I got there, there was a sign on the door, that it was closed until further notice due to the bloody pandemic, although I had got the impression from the web site https://www.wienmuseum.at/de/standorte/beethoven-museum that it had re-opened on the 9^th February. On the way back to the car, which I had parked just down the road by the church I discovered that there was another house there, next to the church, in which Beethoven lived in 1817. We photographed it quickly, and piled back into the car, because it was pretty parky. I will go and investigate that when the weather is nicer.

Recently I was (quite unfairly IMHO) criticised for neglecting Beethoven, so I thought I would report on how we spent our Pfingstmontag (Whit Monday), which is a public holiday here.

 

We drove to Gneixendorf, which nowadays is a suburb of Krems, but back then was a wine growing village, where Beethovens brother, Johann van Beethoven owned two adjacent buildings separated by a small road, the “Wasserhof” and the “Trautingerhof”. Johann v. Beethoven was an Apotheker (pharmacist), which was evidently a much better business than composing, and Ludwig v. B. spent his summer there in the nature (vineyard) composing, It was here that he famously wrote the “Große Fuge” for his last quartet. After composing that he drove back to Vienna in an open carriage (cheaper) and got caught in a thunderstorm, caught pneumonia and died a few months later.

 

The two buildings are still there, although they are both privately owned, so that one cannot go in an examine them. The larger of the two, the Wasserhof, is hidden behind a large wall and trees, so that one can hardly even photograph it. The smaller one, the Trautingerhof, doesn’t look particularly lived in, although there were lots of chickens running around the couple of small lorries in the garden, which look like they were abandoned there in the 1960’s

 

On the wall of the Wasserhof is an etching of a Beethoven quartet, and several display boards explaining all the details for the diehard Beethoven tourist