Joseph Fischer Regensburg

[jacobsaunders]

Joseph Fischer, Lütgendorff tells us, without mentioning his source, came to Regensburg from Vienna about 1790. Fischers instruments are relatively seldom, I speculate because at that time the violin makers gradually started to deal more and more with antique instruments, rather than making new ones. Lütgendorff speculates that they are relatively rare because many have been re- christened Italian. I have wondered, although not found out, if he were related to the Viennese maker Anton Fisher, who also dealt with old instruments so much so that his new ones were rare. His (Anton Fischer Vienna’s) main claim to fame was probably being Gabriel Lemböcks father-in-law. All four Engleder brothers, who were Fischers nephews, learnt with him. Andreas E. gets the best write ups of the four, although I have the impression that he was more the proprietor of the best 19^th C. Munich shop. The last Engleder Munich violin I had being, in my opinion a Thumbhard from Straubing. Alois Engleder gets less laurels, but a cello in my front room shows him to be at the forefront of Vienna/Budapest Biedermayer violin making. There was further a Josef Engleder in Kelheim, which at the time was a major town on the Danube, but is nowadays more a suburb of Munich. He is also represented by a violin in my front room. The forth brother, Ludwig E. opened his own shop in Bamburg in 1835, but I have never seen a violin of his. Fischer was also the teacher of Petrus Schulz.

The violin illustrated here is from1805, and is stylistically still set in the late 18^th C. with a “Stainer” model interpretation, which one could in some ways think of as Viennese, except that it has very low ribs (27mm), and ribs cut on the slab (which make one think of Mittenwald) The ribs are built around a mould, with a one piece bottom rib (with “Mittenwald” notch). Pine blocks and linings, let into the corner blocks with a point. The scroll has a fairly robust curved pegbox, the fluting going to the “bitter end” of the throat. Otherwise the fiddle will be here until tomorow, should anyone want me to check out any other features.

[PhilipKT]

Thank you for the information. Very pretty violin and in really nice condition

[Three13]

Lovely violin. It seems like there's a dearth of great information on Austrian makers, so I always look forward to your well-researched posts.

[Michael Appleman]

Very interesting, Jacob. Thanks for posting. I have intimately known a violin with a similar label, around the same date, I believe, that while built on a mold in the southern German/viennese style, is nothing at all like this violin for the model, being much more a "Golden Stradivari" inspired model closer to the Geissenhoff style than the "Long Strad-ish" Buchstetter/Thumhardt style. It reminded me more of the Veit Anton Widhalms I've seen since, actually. I used that violin for a bit some 35 plus years ago, after which it was my brother's "pit" fiddle at the Metropolitan Opera for a number of years. It was one of the reasons I was always on the lookout for another Regensburg violin. I think my brother might still have that violin in NY. I'll have to check with him and see if he can take some photos of it.

You say that Joseph Fischers are rather rare, so I imagine you haven't had too many file through your shop, but might he have been labelling the work of others as you suggest Engleder in Munich was doing with Thumhardt? Could he have been selling V.A. Widhalms or Thumhardts?

[Andreas Preuss]

Thanks again die Sharing all The Information. 

I can add only that i have seen 2 violas by Joseph Fischer. One which is pictured in the book by Bünnagel and another one in the shop of Serge Stam maybe 25 years ago. I recall that the latter one in Stans shop had an amazing varnish with deep reflecting ground and a very clear yellow varnish which had a freaking resemblance to  Milanese instruments. 

The other thing which was sticking out from both violas was that the f hole were patterned after Strad (or at least not Stainer) which is rather  unusual for German instruments before 1800. 

. 

[jacobsaunders]

2 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

 

You say that Joseph Fischers are rather rare, so I imagine you haven't had too many file through your shop, but might he have been labelling the work of others as you suggest Engleder in Munich was doing with Thumhardt? Could he have been selling V.A. Widhalms or Thumhardts?

I agree that the start of the 19^th.C was a very interesting period in violin making (here anyway). The new epoch didn’t start with the press of a button, and some makers stuck stubbornly in the 18^th C. (Frank for instance). Others started trying to ape Stradivari, and still others gradually transitioned (one thinks of Geissenhof or Strnad). I’m sure it also played a role that makers spent more time repairing and dealing with antique instruments, and produced fewer new ones. Also the violin makers changed from being artisan craftsmen, to more being middle-class businessmen. In Fischers application for citizenship from 1821, we learn that he had been in the city for 23 years. He also tells us that he didn’t only wish to serve the musicians of the Regensburg area, but also further afield. Since we know that he had at least 5 apprentices (4x Engleder & Schultz) and goodness knows who else we don’t know about, he certainly wasn’t someone who worked on his own by candlelight. I do not know if he bought instruments elsewhere, and am loath to speculate. The Munich Engleder certainly did though.

[Violadamore]

Another great post, thanks, Jacob.  If possible, could you please photograph the lower rib that you mentioned? 

[jacobsaunders]

3 hours ago, Violadamore said:

 could you please photograph the lower rib that you mentioned? 

The lady came and fetched it at 9 o'clock this morning, so you will have to wait until she's got it dirty again

[jacobsaunders]

Anton Fischer

Since I mentioned him, but still don’t know if he was related to Joseph Fisher, who came to Regensburg from Vienna, I thought I would take a closer look at Anton Fischer of Vienna. Most lexicographers state he was born in Vienna for some reason, but the primary sources record his birth on 1^st July 1795 in “Tyrnau aus Ungarn” (today Trnava in Slovakia), the son of Gottfried and Elisabeth Fischer. His father is recorded as “könings ungarische beamter” (Hungarian civil servant).

Quite where he learnt violin making isn’t explicitly recorded, although the fact that he married the widow, Magdalena Josepha (born Greis), of the instrument maker Johann Karl Leeb on the 25^th February 1821 in Vienna https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/oesterreich/wien/01-am-hof/02-03/?pg=248

(second entry on the left page) facilitates having a very good guess. Fischer was one of the 19^th C violin makers who came less to making new instruments, because his time was consumed with dealing with old ones. He left a considerable collection of old instruments, including a “Duiffopruggar” viola, which Lüttgendorff thought genuine. His son, Gottfried, learnt violin making with his son in law, Gabriel Lemböck. After the death of Anton F. in 1879, Gottfried F. took over his business, but not for long, as he opened a grocery in Hietzing (a suburb of Vienna) in 1883, which was not a success, and he died about 1888 in the workhouse.

This viola from 1831 illustrates the way that the 19^th C. makers had broken with traditions, and had tried to rethink instrument making. It seems to be an attempt to make the smallest possible viola, with the longest possible string length. The viola retains it’s original undisturbed neck, which is mortised (not dovetailed!) shallowly into the top block (without a nail), with a rather small “Überstand”. The (presumably original) fingerboard is of pine, with a thick ebony veneer. The scroll fluting goes all the way to the end of the throat. The rest of the woodwork is in best Viennese tradition, made around a mould with pine linings let into the pine corner blocks. The centre joint has the obligatory strip of parchment. The label is a text book example of what a 200 year old label should look like. It is entirely undisturbed or distressed, just a little dusty, and the “1” of 1831 has a dot, that is i rather than 1 as it must be for the area and age.

It first came to me with the eye of the bass side of the scroll completely missing, so I had to replace that.

[uncle duke]

21 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Anton Fischer

Joseph Fisher

Did you run across a Zacharius Fischer, Wurtzburg 1758?

[Garth E.]

Thank-you Jacob. This post is an interesting study.....again.

[GeorgeH]

Thank you, Jacob! If the OP violin ever comes back for a cleaning, please post the LOB.

[PhilipKT]

I don’t know where Bremen is but found this violin being offered at auction and thought I’d share.

Although I think it has nothing to do with the violins that you have shared

[jacobsaunders]

9 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I don’t know where Bremen is 

Ironic that you despair about the American education system

 

[Blank face]

There’s a good chance that most of the Americans have ancestors being embarked in Bremerhaven.

[PhilipKT]

5 hours ago, Blank face said:

There’s a good chance that most of the Americans have ancestors being embarked in Bremerhaven.

8 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Ironic that you despair about the American education system

 

I freely admit my geography isn’t the best, especially European geography, which changes frequently. But that doesn’t really have anything to do with being aware of how a violin bow is held.

[Blank face]

3 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I freely admit my geography isn’t the best, especially European geography, which changes frequently.

I just thought you were interested. There's a famous violin maker halfway between Bremen and Bremerhaven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Musicians_of_Bremen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremerhaven#cite_note-4

[PhilipKT]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

I just thought you were interested. There's a famous violin maker halfway between Bremen and Bremerhaven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Musicians_of_Bremen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremerhaven#cite_note-4

Diese Tiere kenne Ich gar gut!

[Rue]

One of my all-time favourite quartets! 

[jacobsaunders]

Having lived there for 3 years in the early 80’s, I feel qualified to report that Bremen is very disappointing. It was fairly comprehensively flattened in WWII. What little slightly older bits one might notice, turn out, upon closer inspection to either be mere facades, or completely fake. Anything slightly older left after the war was redeveloped by banks or insurance companies or the like. I never found some puerile fairy tale to be much of a saving grace, even if Philip learnt to recognise animals in infants-school. In fact the only really good thing about Bremen is it’s almost entirely gapless cycle-path network, which renders owning a car a complete waste of money. Of course they had their fair share of Saxon dealers over the years, who imported and labelled up Dutzendarbeit. I for one am sick of that stuff, which is a reason to put some interesting Viennese instruments for discussion. In a Juzek world, evidently a vain undertaking.

[Rue]

Well, I was only visiting for a week...I thought it was a lovely city.  Nicely rebuilt...and what about:

[jacobsaunders]

10 minutes ago, Rue said:

Well, I was only visiting for a week...I thought it was a lovely city.  Nicely rebuilt...and what about:

 

I dread to think what Canada must look like

[Shelbow]

I'm waiting for the thread on the makers of Liechenstein (Vaduz and Schellenberg) if there were any?

In other unrelated news I would be quite keen to visit Wolfenbüttel one day having spent a little while studying the work of Michael Praetorius

[Rue]

35 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I dread to think what Canada must look like

 Just survived a prolonged heat wave. Everything is brown and crunchy. Looks awful.

But I can only speak for the middle of the county. Don't know what the Pacific and Atlantic regions look like! 

[Blank face]

On 8/24/2020 at 3:43 PM, uncle duke said:

Did you run across a Zacharius Fischer, Wurtzburg 1758?

To bring it back to violin matters, one should realize that Fischer is a very common name in the German speaking regions, like Schuster, Müller or other profession-related names. So I won't think automatically that a maker (or dealer) bearing this name is very likely related to another having the same. Another thing which is good to know is that Bremen at the coast of the North sea isn't only some thousand kilometres away from Vienna or Hungary, but of a very different cultural identity, mentality and religious tradition (protestantism vs. catholizism), so one should beware of confusing them. Factually there wasn't a violin making tradition anymore in the Northern region since the times of Thielke till the early 20th century when it was brought there from the South by makers like Winterling.

The very nice viola by Anton Fischer reminds me (except the very different varnish and much nicer executed details) of some Mittenwald attempts adapting the modern and sought-after models during this period.