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Yogic

Tarisio Violin: Sells 15x over its estimate

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Lot 23 sells for GBP 143,000 on an estimate of GBP 10,000. What is this violin btw ? Is Piganini in this forum and can answer ?

A FINE AND INTERESTING ITALIAN VIOLIN, 18th CENTURY

Labelled, "Fato in Verona, di Giacomo Zanoli, 17.. fascimile."

Estimate:£10,000–15,000

High Bidder:Piganini
High Bid:£120,000
Including Premium:£143,000

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Several bidders went way past the estimate, 4 of them going past 80K. Always interesting to watch auctions.

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we talked a little bit about this lot in this thread 

I think there is a thought that this is may well be a genuine Zanoli

 

 

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If it is a Zanoli, I am surprised the folks at Tarisio did not identify it and sell it as one. They obviously have the best experts in the World to leverage

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Maybe there was enough doubt that they felt it was safer not to, perhaps they expected it would probably go way above estimate anyway. 

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40 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

Maybe there was enough doubt that they felt it was safer not to, perhaps they expected it would probably go way above estimate anyway. 

Indeed.

The heavy hitters all suffer from a strange hubris which makes them pay more at auction for a sleeper than they would if it was offered privately. We see it time and again ...

Zanoli is a very rare maker and the head was not original - it would be pretty brave to give a categorical attribution. I suppose Tarisio will have consulted third parties, but who would tell the truth in that situation?

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Seems like a win for Tarisio, they got what seems to be a great sale price (from the price history I have seen), plus they have not committed to it being Zanoli so if it later turns out not to be then they have covered themselves.

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Now the buyer gets 3 months to pay for the violin with Tarisio's new scheme. I hope he or she pays up and does not disappear with buyers remorse :P We will then find it in the next auction and it might sell for GBP 5000  :rolleyes:

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45 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

they have not committed to it being Zanoli so if it later turns out not to be then they have covered themselves.

It isn’t one at the moment, is it?

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2 minutes ago, rudall said:

It isn’t one at the moment, is it?

I have no idea.

But some people obviously think it might be.

We were just discussing why Tarisio might not have listed it as one although they might have thought parts of it are.

 

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7 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

I have no idea.

But some people obviously think it might be.

We were just discussing why Tarisio might not have listed it as one although they might have thought parts of it are.

 

Not the first time they have done that... It went for almost 150K pounds without them taking the risk. I had a similar experiences with a gorgeous Pressenda and a Landolfi in the past that they didn't stand by their certificates but went for a lot of money... both gorgeous fiddles

 

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Just now, germain said:

Not the first time they have done that... It went for almost 150K pounds without taking the risk 

This is what I mean, win win for Tarisio.

Like I said I am (clearly ha ha) not an expert and I am sure Martin knows more about the value of the Zanoli's via privates sales etc, but from the historic auction prices I have seen for that maker that could be a near record price.

 

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7 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

This is what I mean, win win for Tarisio.

Yes, and thanks to a consignor willing to shoulder all of the risk. But maybe he picked it up on EBAY for nothing...

I often wondered if a seller could ask for an upper limit on a seller's premium if the auction house isn't willing to go to bat for them and it sells high anyway.

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13 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

I have no idea.

But some people obviously think it might be.

You miss the point.

 

15 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

We were just discussing why Tarisio might not have listed it as one although they might have thought parts of it are.

As my reading comprehension is pretty good, I am aware of the topic under discussion.
Where did you get the idea that Tarisio thought that parts of the violin might be by Zanoli?

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1 minute ago, rudall said:

You miss the point.

 

As my reading comprehension is pretty good, I am aware of the topic under discussion.
Where did you get the idea that Tarisio thought that parts of the violin might be by Zanoli?

You are right. No where has Tarisio hinted it is a Zanoli except quoting the label 

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13 minutes ago, rudall said:

You miss the point.

 

As my reading comprehension is pretty good, I am aware of the topic under discussion.
Where did you get the idea that Tarisio thought that parts of the violin might be by Zanoli?

I'm not saying that they did at all, I have no idea what they are or were thinking. I was just stating that for them this sale had no risk as they provided no attribution.

I was hypothesizing that they "might" have thought otherwise but played it safe expecting it to sell well anyway.

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39 minutes ago, deans said:

 But maybe he picked it up on EBAY for nothing...

 

34 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

Maybe they had an agreement, who knows without seeing the individual contract.

It very well could of been an old ladies heirloom just lying around for ages.  Thing is what do the auction houses have possession or record wise to suggest a price for this work?  

ex.  all we have for comparison is one other Zanoli and a Jeffrey Holmes Strad model circa 1976. 

What will keep us/the auction house out of trouble and still be able to make a few dollars?

 

 

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