Sign in to follow this  
Ron Teplitz

Ban on denatured alcohol in California

Recommended Posts

Interesting how the lawmakers are so fixated on controlling alcohol so closely,  citing public safety, while the younger generations are killing themselves left and right everyday with homemade meth-amphetamines, and other illicit drugs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

Interesting how the lawmakers are so fixated on controlling alcohol so closely,  citing public safety, while the younger generations are killing themselves left and right everyday with homemade meth-amphetamines, and other illicit drugs.

Alcohol kills too. Just because it's the drug of the more affluent doesn't make it good . Alcohol is the direct cause of more deaths then any other substance besides tobacco and, uh, processed food, in the United States. It's many more than we even know about because alcohol oftentimes doesn't make it onto the death certicate when it is a contributing factor. Alcohol contributes to domestic violence, countless other crimes, and probably at least half of all stupid ideas that are thought of.

What kid ever said to themselves, "well, hmm... What should I do this weekend...although I've never tried alcohol I'm pretty curious about ... meth...or how about some crack? Ooh, yes, I'll have some of that!" Literally no one. Alcohol is always the gateway. 

That said, seems backwards to illegalize anything around alcohol to the point that it's hard to seek treatment and it's insanity to add poison to it. This is not an argument for prohibition, we all know that doesn't work. I just think it's pointless to say that methamphetamine is any worse than alcohol. In some ways alcohol is worse.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here in Canada, the government has set up safe injection sites for the drug addicts, where they are provided with new, clean needles and heroin, or whatever the drug of choice is, all at the taxpayers expense.  In light of everything going on in this world, this is ludicrous.

Sure, alcohol has it's problems, but I don't believe nearly so as  the illicit drugs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bill Yacey said:

Here in Canada, the government has set up safe injection sites for the drug addicts, where they are provided with new, clean needles and heroin, or whatever the drug of choice is, all at the taxpayers expense.  In light of everything going on in this world, this is ludicrous.

Sure, alcohol has it's problems, but I don't believe nearly so as  the illicit drugs.

 

Yeah it's pretty Brave New World kind of tactics but I suppose it takes away the impetus for getting people addicted in the first place...money. The whole black market and Drug cartels ... all sorts of stuff would just disappear. I wonder if you ever had that sort of thing in Canada . Not like the US I'm sure because this country is more or less set up to encourage business, even on that level. No one will admit that prohibition causes and creates crime but it does of course. A few cities here operate exchanges but imo it's only socially beneficial if it's a given everywhere.

I sure can't argue against giving people clean needles when they're going to use some sort of needle guaranteed. I get what you're saying of course. It's weird. I guess it's a way to keep track of people who might otherwise drop off the grid and die. 

In the US of A we are totally fine witth that inevitability, and we have made a business of jailing the addicts who are still energetic enough to commit crimes to get drugs (as well as jailing people for the crime of possessing certain drugs for their personal use).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might sound harsh, but that's natural selection at work. Try as we might, it can't be fought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

Here in Canada, the government has set up safe injection sites for the drug addicts, where they are provided with new, clean needles and heroin, or whatever the drug of choice is, all at the taxpayers expense.  In light of everything going on in this world, this is ludicrous.

Sure, alcohol has it's problems, but I don't believe nearly so as  the illicit drugs.

 

I wouldn't be too sure of that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Michael.N. said:

I don't think the denaturant is a poison as such, just foul tasting. The poison is the alcohol itself. 

If they are "denaturing" it with methyl alcohol, it's highly poisonous; it doesn't take much to kill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needle exchanges and methadone or heroin dispensaries aren't only for the addicts. They're for the children who deserve to play in city parks without finding a used needle and for people who want to walk to their car without being robbed. There is absolutely a benefit to society when social workers and recources are available for addicts at any time, if you agree that more people choosing recovery is of benefit to society. But even if they choose addiction, let them get high in a controlled environment, away from me and my children.

What Bill said is like saying MADD is there educating about drunk driving to save the drunks from getting behind the wheel and risking a dui, (which I hear can be a rather inconvenient conviction). No. That organization exists in the hope that my kid or yours isn't "naturally selected" to be taken out by one. 

But it's also an "all lives matter" thing. Talking about people deserving to die because of lack of mental or psychological fitness isn't in line with my values at all. Neither is denaturing alcohol. Addicts may drink it. It's not even safe to touch it. I hope people don't actually use it for violin work, thinking it's not dangerous. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI about Methylated alcohol

1. it is very poisonous in every fashion, ingestion and more insidious, inhalation of fumes and systemic dermal absorption

2. the "cure' for mild at home methyl poisoning, as in you inhaled too much in your garage coating a cello and now have a headache, is to drink regular alcohol, it displaces the poison ie. wood alcohol with the grain alcohol    

3. the entire reasoning, rational and ideology behind methyl in ethanol is shear insanity born form corporate greed, taxation and lameass nanny state reasoning behind it's addition to wonderful pure WAY safer grain alcohol. Reading the bureaucratic governmental/ corporate reasoning behind the "need" to poison "everyone" is about as full of crap as reading laws about why marijuana should be illegal, a buncha corporate legal speak meant to confuse idiots and enrich aholes

so califonia, and or really everywhere SHOULD get rid of it, however at the same time I should be able to go to my paint store and buy a gallon of 190 ethonol, thanks I don't need the state to protect me from myself incase I feel like downing a can of cheap ass kleen strip alcohol. And to the poor idiot who would go to a paint store to buy alcohol in a can to drink, I say more power to them and stop trying to save idiots and changing the darwin award stats.

in the mean time I now consider my supply of alcohol to be an hour glass for me, if I can't find an EASY to obtain alc supply alternate source for a suitable solvent for my shellac, I now consider the last drop of alcohol to be my last months in this lovely hellhole nanny state.Just another nail in the Balkan coffin.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, not telling said:

 But even if they choose addiction, let them get high in a controlled environment, away from me and my children.

But it's also an "all lives matter" thing. Talking about people deserving to die because of lack of mental or psychological fitness isn't in line with my values at all.

 

 

 

Isn't this ignoring the problem though;  as long as it doesn't affect me?

I'm not saying that the addicts deserve to die, but why are we going so far out of our way to prolong their efforts towards self destruction?

At some point, people have to start taking responsibility for their own actions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, not telling said:

Needle exchanges and methadone or heroin dispensaries aren't only for the addicts. They're for the children who deserve to play in city parks without finding a used needle and for people who want to walk to their car without being robbed. There is absolutely a benefit to society when social workers and recources are available for addicts at any time, if you agree that more people choosing recovery is of benefit to society. But even if they choose addiction, let them get high in a controlled environment, away from me and my children.

What Bill said is like saying MADD is there educating about drunk driving to save the drunks from getting behind the wheel and risking a dui, (which I hear can be a rather inconvenient conviction). No. That organization exists in the hope that my kid or yours isn't "naturally selected" to be taken out by one. 

But it's also an "all lives matter" thing. Talking about people deserving to die because of lack of mental or psychological fitness isn't in line with my values at all. Neither is denaturing alcohol. Addicts may drink it. It's not even safe to touch it. I hope people don't actually use it for violin work, thinking it's not dangerous.

It  can be difficult to know exactly where to draw the line between helping someone, and "enabling" them.

If someone has a drinking problem, should we deliver free alcohol to their residence, to reduce the temptation to drive to the store while they are intoxicated, to get more? Should we offer them priority free transportation at a moment's notice? Both would reduce the probability of endangering themselves and others from their driving intoxicated.

If someone is a pedophile, should we offer them the government-paid services of naturally-tiny adult prostitutes dressed up like school children?

Somehow, these things would seem a little weird to me. Maybe I'm just too old-fashioned?

What about having more stringent law enforcement "sequester" :D   these people in places where they can do less harm to the general public? Would that be "good", or "bad"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi.  I enjoy a good debate as well as anyone, but this seems to me to be motoring down the Road Paved With Good Intentions toward the usual final destination.  The availability questions having been answered, what does the War On Drugs have to do with stringed instruments?  [Looks to where Jezzupe is starting the guitar riff for "Imagine" while smoking a doobie and waves a bokuto in a "don't you dare" gesture.]  :ph34r:  :P  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

Hi.  I enjoy a good debate as well as anyone, but this seems to me to be motoring down the Road Paved With Good Intentions toward the usual final destination.  The availability questions having been answered, what does the War On Drugs have to do with stringed instruments?  [Looks to where Jezzupe is starting the guitar riff for "Imagine" while smoking a doobie and waves a bokuto in a "don't you dare" gesture.]  :ph34r:  :P  :lol:

Waiving what? A burrito?  :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, David Burgess said:

Waiving what? A burrito?  :o

The functionings of your mind are ever a wonderment to me.  Sounds like you've got the munchies.  ;)  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Hi.  I enjoy a good debate as well as anyone, but this seems to me to be motoring down the Road Paved With Good Intentions toward the usual final destination.  The availability questions having been answered, what does the War On Drugs have to do with stringed instruments?  [Looks to where Jezzupe is starting the guitar riff for "Imagine" while smoking a doobie and waves a bokuto in a "don't you dare" gesture.]  :ph34r:  :P  :lol:

Sorry for sidetracking this thread, it's just that I have a dim view of government creating black and white laws to "cure" a problem, but meanwhile creating a host of other problems because there isn't room for any gray area in between.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

If they are "denaturing" it with methyl alcohol, it's highly poisonous; it doesn't take much to kill.

A variety of denaturants have been used in the past, some noxious but relatively harmless, some lethal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sad thing is its super easy to make 100 proof grain alc, it's a different story to get 190...and it was a hotpocket probably :lol: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, jezzupe said:

sad thing is its super easy to make 100 proof grain alc, it's a different story to get 190...and it was a hotpocket probably :lol: 

Are you referring to a pocket-sized mini-still, powered by body heat, so long as we keep our pants on? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1816 was the so called “year without a summer” around the world due to a massive volcano eruption in Indonesia. Obviously the crop failed, and I can remember reading in the Markneukirchen (those days simply “Neukirchen”) Stadt chronic , which I haven't been able to find right now, that distilling corn was forbidden, due to the massive hunger emergency. I wonder what they varnished with that year? Although I suppose that is the least of your worries if you are starving. What would Greta have said?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jezzupe said:

sad thing is its super easy to make 100 proof grain alc, it's a different story to get 190...and it was a hotpocket probably :lol: 

A reflux column easily yields 94%, 96 even, with care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to know why denatured alcohol is denatured? It's not so you don't drink it (you can just go to a liquor store for drinking alcohol), it's because the GOVERNMENT hasn't TAXED it. If the major manufacturers want to sell pure alcohol, they would be charged, and charge you, an extra $13.50 per gallon in Federal taxes, plus whatever your state taxes would be. That's why Everclear is so pricy!

https://files.taxfoundation.org/20190619115106/final-011.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two states that border California sell Everclerar 190--Arizona & Oregon.  Mexico has a similar product.  

Stove fuel probably has a lot of water in the alcohol.  I drive to Oregon for Everclear--30 miles south of me.

The obvious way of curtailing bad behavior is to put more people in jail.  Here in the United States using 2010 data, only 12% of the working age males have a felony conviction.

regards

Mike D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Methanol isn't that toxic unless you drink a large amount of it. Your body has no trouble metabolizing it in small quantities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, avandesande said:

Methanol isn't that toxic unless you drink a large amount of it. Your body has no trouble metabolizing it in small quantities.

What sort of quantities?

Personally I would prefer to use a product which is has not been deliberately made more poisonous than it already is.

I've used methanol, toluene, and leaded gas as engine fuels, but never without knowing the risks, and knowing at least how to semi-safely handle them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.