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Delabo

Stradivari “Vesuvius” sampled instrument.

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I have received an advertising  email from "Native Instruments" regarding a sampled instrument they have produced.

You may remember that last year there was a story about how the city of Cremona fell silent to sample the Vesuvius strad and this VST  (Virtual Studio Instrument}  instrument seems to be the result. The advert provided a link to listen to an extensive demo of the instruments capabilities ( although I doubt anyone here will buy it) . Anyway, it is at least worth a listen.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/cinematic/stradivari-violin/?content=5425&uuh=b86c3ad9c1c853bc59758c075e45b651&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=Cremona Strings (text under image)c%3DCremona_Strings b%3DKomplete t%3DRelease_PD&utm_content=owned

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1 hour ago, Delabo said:

I have received an advertising  email from "Native Instruments" regarding a sampled instrument they have produced.

You may remember that last year there was a story about how the city of Cremona fell silent to sample the Vesuvius strad and this VST  (Virtual Studio Instrument}  instrument seems to be the result. The advert provided a link to listen to an extensive demo of the instruments capabilities ( although I doubt anyone here will buy it) . Anyway, it is at least worth a listen.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/cinematic/stradivari-violin/?content=5425&uuh=b86c3ad9c1c853bc59758c075e45b651&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=Cremona Strings (text under image)c%3DCremona_Strings b%3DKomplete t%3DRelease_PD&utm_content=owned

Thanks for sharing this.  I'll be examining "audio samples" on eBay with increased care and skepticism now that this product is available.  :lol:

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I spent a lot of time investigating simulated sound fonts and sample libraries of violins and even spent time creating my own simulated fonts and samples.

This seems amazingly good and the price is almost too good to be true. Worth checking out if you are commercially involved in making sound tracks.

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Maybe that's what the Vesuvius Strad actually does sound like... but I don't like it.  Sounds overly nasal to me.

Interesting technology, probably most useful for folks who know how to play violin, but can't actually do it all that well.

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2 hours ago, ctanzio said:

I spent a lot of time investigating simulated sound fonts and sample libraries of violins and even spent time creating my own simulated fonts and samples.

This seems amazingly good and the price is almost too good to be true.

Kinda like animated plastic and rubber sex partners.;)

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1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

Kinda like animated plastic and rubber sex partners.;)

Whatever gets one through the lockdown, eh?;)

While the sounds of the "sound library Strad" are a far cry from MIDI, give the actual Vesuvius Strad to any real violinist, and have them play the same passages. You will hear the difference :)

Cheers,

Scoiattola

 

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59 minutes ago, Scoiattola said:

 

While the sounds of the "sound library Strad" are a far cry from MIDI, give the actual Vesuvius Strad to any real violinist, and have them play the same passages. You will hear the difference :)

 

Agreed, some more mechanical passages are believable (pizzicato for example) but mostly it sounds mildly comical.

Also, to achieve what they've achieved on the demo would require vast amounts of programming - i'm sure these are not "out of the box" keyboard patches.

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I used to work in the music tech industry and know a few people from native etc etc. The engineers are mad talented to be fair. 

A few friends of mine work for BFD the acoustic drum simulator software and that is one crazy program. it's so insanely complicated beyond belief but you can genuinely change every single dynamic you could ever think of, it's truly incredible and nuts at the same time! 

As Martin says you probably need to be a very good engineer with a good grasp of the nuisances of every violin technique to really tweak the different parameters and get the best out of the Stradivari sound. Fair play to them for doing it though. 

 

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2 hours ago, Scoiattola said:

While the sounds of the "sound library Strad" are a far cry from MIDI, give the actual Vesuvius Strad to any real violinist, and have them play the same passages. You will hear the difference :)

Cheers,

Scoiattola

Ditto!

The Vesuvius is much better than digital replication, much, much better;)

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1 hour ago, Shelbow said:

...........a good grasp of the nuisances of every violin technique..............

The nuisances to the player, or those to the listener?  That can be a very nuanced business.  :huh:  :ph34r:  :lol:

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1 minute ago, Violadamore said:

The nuisances to the player, or those to the listener?  That can be a very nuanced business.  :huh:  :ph34r:  :lol:

Yes you are very correct, this is a very individual thing. We all hear things differently. Not to mention that the room you listen to something in and the equipment you use to play the audio back also makes a massive difference. I'm sure in a good studio on very expensive audio monitors the Strad samples sound amazing.

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10 hours ago, Shelbow said:

As Martin says you probably need to be a very good engineer with a good grasp of the nuisances of every violin technique

Was that an iFreudian slip? Describes my technique rather well.

Regardless of how the individual notes sound, to think you can create music one sampled note at a time is to miss the point astronomically

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11 hours ago, martin swan said:

Agreed, some more mechanical passages are believable (pizzicato for example) but mostly it sounds mildly comical.

Also, to achieve what they've achieved on the demo would require vast amounts of programming - i'm sure these are not "out of the box" keyboard patches.

I am not sure what you mean by programming ?

This is just a basic kontakt VST instrument which could be played in real time with a hooked up midi controller. The same goes for all the other sampled instruments used in the demo  such as piano etc. One of the newer midi controllers with piano style squishy keys such as a ROLI Seaboard  would allow "MPE" expression to be used (Midi Polyphonic Expression.)

A standard multitrack DAW such as Cubase could be used to multitrack the whole thing using different instruments  and played real-time if the person was competent enough.

But I am sure I am teaching granny  how to suck eggs and you already know all this stuff.

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58 minutes ago, matesic said:

Didn't Joshua Bell waste a lot of his valuable time playing samples like this, probably on another Strad?

You are probably referring to this instrument for which I guess he was paid handsomely to perform - so maybe not a total waste of time.......................

https://www.embertone.com/instruments/joshuabellviolin.php

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5 minutes ago, Delabo said:

You are probably referring to this instrument for which I guess he was paid handsomely to perform - so maybe not a total waste of time.......................

https://www.embertone.com/instruments/joshuabellviolin.php

Right you are. Unfortunately Pavarotti didn't survive long enough to have his talent preserved in such a way.

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6 hours ago, matesic said:

 

Regardless of how the individual notes sound, to think you can create music one sampled note at a time is to miss the point astronomically

Not really - sampled pianos and other tuned percussive instruments are relatively straightforward.

And you can make music out of anything. All you need is pitch and repetition.

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5 hours ago, Delabo said:

I am not sure what you mean by programming ?

This is just a basic kontakt VST instrument which could be played in real time with a hooked up midi controller. The same goes for all the other sampled instruments used in the demo  such as piano etc. One of the newer midi controllers with piano style squishy keys such as a ROLI Seaboard  would allow "MPE" expression to be used (Midi Polyphonic Expression.)

A standard multitrack DAW such as Cubase could be used to multitrack the whole thing using different instruments  and played real-time if the person was competent enough.

But I am sure I am teaching granny  how to suck eggs and you already know all this stuff.

Kind of ...

I'm sure the VST instruments supplied as keyboard patches with this software would work after a fashion, but to imitate a complex piece of violin music you would need to make up your own multilayered patches with some pretty subtle transitions between different bow strokes, staccato to legato, different vibrato speeds and intensities, tonalities based on distance to the bridge etc.

This seems to me to be what they have done with some of the demo pieces - and yet they still sound silly.

What's interesting for me is its experimental potential, in other words the possibility to do things you can't do on a violin.

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6 hours ago, matesic said:

Was that an iFreudian slip? Describes my technique rather well.

Regardless of how the individual notes sound, to think you can create music one sampled note at a time is to miss the point astronomically

A lot of audio engineers do work like this though......

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5 hours ago, Delabo said:

I am not sure what you mean by programming ?

This is just a basic kontakt VST instrument which could be played in real time with a hooked up midi controller. The same goes for all the other sampled instruments used in the demo  such as piano etc. One of the newer midi controllers with piano style squishy keys such as a ROLI Seaboard  would allow "MPE" expression to be used (Midi Polyphonic Expression.)

A standard multitrack DAW such as Cubase could be used to multitrack the whole thing using different instruments  and played real-time if the person was competent enough.

But I am sure I am teaching granny  how to suck eggs and you already know all this stuff.

I worked for ROLI for 5 and a bit years (from nearish the beginning of it's first product release) I used to make the keys of the original Seaboard by hand, mixing together chemical inside a cabin for 10 hours a day. I also did a lot of QA work and a whole host of other things. Yes this would be a great virtual instrument to use with an MPE capable controller.

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11 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

... mixing together chemical inside a cabin for 10 hours a day....

Good grief! Who did you offend???

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1 minute ago, Rue said:

Good grief! Who did you offend???

Also spraying paint in another cabin where the solvent for the paint was toluene, highly carcinogenic! We had full respirators but still sometimes you could get exposed for being in there too long. In a previous job when I was young I was breathing in MDF dust on a daily basis. I'm expecting death will come to me at an earlier age than most. 

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Well, I wouldn't quite bank on that either...^_^

In the meantime - I hope you're bolstering your health; eating well, exercising...avoiding the avoidable carcinogens...

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