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Rue

J.C. Bach violin duets...are they a bit of a mystery?

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This is likely a very dumb question...but I'm gonna ask anyway. :ph34r:

I have Volume 1 of J.C. Bach's Six Duets for violin.

So...because I like to research the material I work on, I Googled...and...nada?

I can find both Volumes 1 and 2 for sale - but no info on them...

I can't find them on any list of his compositions.

I can't find a recording of them.

Anyone know why? Am I Googling wrong? Are they just of zero interest? Then why were they published?

20200627_144029.jpg

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That's very mysterious. I expect I've been down the same google trail as you and come to the same impasse. I notice that the title page of the IMC edition has "Friedrich" in brackets (meaning what?) so I checked out JCF Bach too but without success. Didn't those Bach boys churn out a lot of music!

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Perhaps they were originally for a different combination?

Or possibly, like his famous C minor viola/cello concerto, they were “discovered” by some modern musician, while the ink was yet damp!

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Your guess is as good as mine!  However, my edition seems quite old...I should check for a date...

11 hours ago, matesic said:

That's very mysterious. I expect I've been down the same google trail as you and come to the same impasse. I notice that the title page of the IMC edition has "Friedrich" in brackets (meaning what?) so I checked out JCF Bach too but without success. Didn't those Bach boys churn out a lot of music!

I'm glad I'm not imagining things! :D

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I wonder if it is a transcription of some of his Concertantes, six of which featured two violins as the soloist instruments.

Here are the keys of the six works. See if they match they keys in your book...

W.C32 – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in G major

W.C33 – Concertante for 2 violins & oboe in E major

W.C35 – Concertante for 2 violins in D major

W.C36a – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in C major

W.C36b – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in C major

W.C42 – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in E major

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Hey, Rue, if your edition is older than 75 years, would you mind scanning a few pages in for us?

I was able to see the first page by google image searching, and, on first glance it looks to be JC Bach.  It's got that pre-Classical stiltedness... looks like 9 year old Mozart having a rough day.

My first thought was the same as Philip's, that maybe they're transcriptions, but I looked through a few scores (a few of the ones ctanzio suggests) and couldn't find it.

My second thought was that it was a "found" work, but then after it actually looks like pre-Classical music... this is  a decent mystery.

My new hypothesis is that it's a JC Bach keyboard solo keyboard piece.

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On 6/29/2020 at 3:27 AM, matesic said:

I notice that the title page of the IMC edition has "Friedrich" in brackets (meaning what?) 

W. Friedrich was the editor.

I would like to figure out who he was.  Was he William Friedrich?  Was he the editor or the "editor"?

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20 hours ago, ctanzio said:

I wonder if it is a transcription of some of his Concertantes, six of which featured two violins as the soloist instruments.

Here are the keys of the six works. See if they match they keys in your book...

W.C32 – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in G major

W.C33 – Concertante for 2 violins & oboe in E major

W.C35 – Concertante for 2 violins in D major

W.C36a – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in C major

W.C36b – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in C major

W.C42 – Concertante for 2 violins & cello in E major

I will go look! 

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4 hours ago, Stephen Fine said:

Hey, Rue, if your edition is older than 75 years, would you mind scanning a few pages in for us?

I was able to see the first page by google image searching, and, on first glance it looks to be JC Bach.  It's got that pre-Classical stiltedness... looks like 9 year old Mozart having a rough day.

My first thought was the same as Philip's, that maybe they're transcriptions, but I looked through a few scores (a few of the ones ctanzio suggests) and couldn't find it.

My second thought was that it was a "found" work, but then after it actually looks like pre-Classical music... this is  a decent mystery.

My new hypothesis is that it's a JC Bach keyboard solo keyboard piece.

I can't find a date on the music, but the paper is still pliable.

20200630_114328.jpg

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14 hours ago, Stephen Fine said:

W. Friedrich was the editor.

I would like to figure out who he was.  Was he William Friedrich?  Was he the editor or the "editor"?

Might be a pseudonym for Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst "Heredity can tend to run out of ideas" Bach?

First name for your editor is given here and other arrangements:

http://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no2015121419/

There's also a publishing house of Wilhelm Friedrich, Leipzig that seems to specialize in scientific periodicals

 

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On 6/30/2020 at 10:13 PM, Bill Merkel said:

Might be a pseudonym for Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst "Heredity can tend to run out of ideas" Bach?

First name for your editor is given here and other arrangements:

http://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no2015121419/

There's also a publishing house of Wilhelm Friedrich, Leipzig that seems to specialize in scientific periodicals

 

I don't think so (or else we'd have more evidence of these duos).

I think William Friedrich is more likely the brother of the violin maker John Friedrich.  He was in NYC at the right time.

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12 hours ago, Stephen Fine said:

I don't think so

you're probably right.  i thought i had found an example of a WFE arrangement of JC but it didn't pan out.  I can't find evidence he's the brother of the violin maker though.  Plus everything refers to the brother as william rather than wilhelm as in the worldcat link (who definitely is our arranger)

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14 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

you're probably right.  i thought i had found an example of a WFE arrangement of JC but it didn't pan out.  I can't find evidence he's the brother of the violin maker though.  Plus everything refers to the brother as william rather than wilhelm as in the worldcat link (who definitely is our arranger)

Yeah.  I misread Wilhelm for William.  Probably not the same guy.  NYC even in that era was a large city.  Lots of Friedrichs, no doubt.

 

 

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I just wasted several hours digging on this, and am inclined to dismiss this composition as a late 19th. Century pastiche originally written by this Dr. Wilhelm Friedrich, http://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no2015121419/ (kudos to Bill, who found him first).  The trail was muddied by music industry piracy, mergers, and acquisitions, ending in the item currently being ultimately owned by Peaksware Holdings, LLC, through their subsidiary Alfred Music.  It's still in print, apparently, but offered by International Music Company ( https://www.sharmusic.com/Sheet-Music/Violin/Ensemble/Bach-Johann-Christian---Six-Duets-Volume-1---Two-Violins---edited-by-W-Friedrich---International-Music-Co.axd), which is owned in turn by Bourne Co. Music Publishers.   How they got it is anyone's guess.  :)

Laboriously matching the "Six Duets" with JCB's works might yield what Friedrich's inspiration was, but I'm not so inclined at the moment. :lol:

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18 hours ago, Violadamore said:

I just wasted several hours digging on this, and am inclined to dismiss this composition as a late 19th. Century pastiche originally written by this Dr. Wilhelm Friedrich, http://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-no2015121419/ (kudos to Bill, who found him first).  The trail was muddied by music industry piracy, mergers, and acquisitions, ending in the item currently being ultimately owned by Peaksware Holdings, LLC, through their subsidiary Alfred Music.  It's still in print, apparently, but offered by International Music Company ( https://www.sharmusic.com/Sheet-Music/Violin/Ensemble/Bach-Johann-Christian---Six-Duets-Volume-1---Two-Violins---edited-by-W-Friedrich---International-Music-Co.axd), which is owned in turn by Bourne Co. Music Publishers.   How they got it is anyone's guess.  :)

Laboriously matching the "Six Duets" with JCB's works might yield what Friedrich's inspiration was, but I'm not so inclined at the moment. :lol:

If I ever want somebody to find my relatives who disappeared in the mountains 50 years ago, I will call you up.

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