Stradivarius violin talks to you

[Eugen Modri]

51 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I don't know how many Strads you have played, but I have never had this experience of finding one difficult to play. I remember one in an auction which had an insert in the belly which sounded poor (lack of tonal colour), the Molitor was surprisingly stiff but great nonetheless ... but in the main the instruments I've been lucky enough to play on have been anywhere from great to phenomenal, from the vey first bow stroke.

That is because you play superficially, with low bow ( and left hand ) pressure and Strads fit that style of playing like a glove. People who like to dig into the string need time to adapt.

[Eugen Modri]

10 minutes ago, Rue said:

He probably HAS to talk about it (I believe this is called 'marketing').  He probably can't say anything overtly negative, even if he wanted to.  He found an excellent balance between the two.  Very diplomatic - especially for a young adult (yob 1995).

Do you have any evidence besides your disrespectful speculations ? He is a dedicated, talented, wonderful young man who worked incredibly hard and for long years. Had the courage to test his metal against similar others. Your speculations are utterly inappropriate.

[GeorgeH]

Some people think great violins are harder to play than lesser violins.

Some people think great violins are so easy to play that they "almost play by themselves."

Personally, I don't think either statement is correct. I think great violins give you more options for expression and tone color, but that alone does not make them easier or harder to play.

I think that a violin that crunches under normal bow pressure is not a great violin.

[PhilipKT]

46 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I don't know how many Strads you have played, but I have never had this experience of finding one difficult to play. I remember one in an auction which had an insert in the belly which sounded poor (lack of tonal colour), the Molitor was surprisingly stiff but great nonetheless ... but in the main the instruments I've been lucky enough to play on have been anywhere from great to phenomenal, from the vey first bow stroke.

Martin I’m assuming that was directed at me. I’ve only played one Strad, if I recall correctly, dates from 1693.

im not suggesting it didn’t sound good, I’m saying that I was overplaying. Even though I always start an unknown instrument with a minimum of energy, this still responded like a race car.

it is neither a reflection on me nor the cello, just shows the difference between a Strad and a non-Strad.

[Eugen Modri]

16 minutes ago, Rue said:

A sample of my playing?  Sorry, no.  I don't see how my  playing would add any value to the discussion.  If you think your playing would, please feel free to upload a sample of yours!  I'll be all ears! 

Your playing will tell me if I should place any weight on your opinions. I already know my playing.

[PhilipKT]

35 minutes ago, Rue said:

Doesn't mean that every Strad will be the same.  Given the number of Strads still in use, and the associated 300 years of repairs, they all can't possibly be 'great'.

Many years ago, the Dallas chamber Orchestra, a string group, gave a an all Strad concert. I think every instrument in the orchestra was a Strad except for one of the Violas(and the Basses, of course.) It was a big deal to have assembled a bunch of Stradivari instruments for one concert and the subsequent recording.

I learned later that one of the violinists, a titled player in the Dallas Symphony, had been assigned the Dallas Symphony Strad, and didn’t like it, so he played on his Gofriller.

[Rue]

18 minutes ago, Eugen Modri said:

Quote

Do you have any evidence besides your disrespectful speculations ? ...Your speculations are utterly inappropriate.

 

Disrespectful? Inappropriate? Really?  Quite the opposite.  However, your speculations on my speculations are definitely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Keep it up, and I'll throw in the 'utterly'...

18 minutes ago, Eugen Modri said:

He is a dedicated, talented, wonderful young man who worked incredibly hard and for long years. Had the courage to test his metal against similar others. 

Yes. 

And what on earth does that have to do with the quality of a violin he's been loaned? 

8 minutes ago, Eugen Modri said:

Your playing will tell me if I should place any weight on your opinions. I already know my playing.

 I know my playing...I don't know yours.  Why should I place weight on your opinions?  Can't have it both ways! 

[Rue]

5 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Many years ago, the Dallas chamber Orchestra, a string group, gave a an all Strad concert. I think every instrument in the orchestra was a Strad except for one of the Violas(and the Basses, of course.) It was a big deal to have assembled a bunch of Stradivari instruments for one concert and the subsequent recording.

I learned later that one of the violinists, a titled player in the Dallas Symphony, had been assigned the Dallas Symphony Strad, and didn’t like it, so he played on his Gofriller.

So...did that turn the concert into a lie?  The 'Almost All Strad' concert?   Did hoards of ticket-buyers demand refunds?

[PhilipKT]

1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

The soloist instruments which I consider to be the best are capable of taking this energy without a problem, and also responding well to lower energy inputs. This gives the player a broader palette from which to draw power contrasts, color, and expressiveness. No need to tiptoe around.

 I don’t disagree, but what I’m describing is not just over playing, it’s uncontrolled playing.

Sound is a result of a ratio of bow speed to bow weight, and a Strad has its own set of optimum ratios, And each has to be individually learned. 

Interestingly, when  I had the chance to play the Arkwright Strad, which is a violin, I did not have that problem at all, probably because I was a cellist playing a violin, And the awkwardness of the different bow angle compensated a little bit.

Continuing the race car analogy, how many people Buy a Lamborghini and wrap it around a tree the first day? 

Edited June 29, 2020 by PhilipKT

[martin swan]

42 minutes ago, Eugen Modri said:

That is because you play superficially, with low bow ( and left hand ) pressure and Strads fit that style of playing like a glove. People who like to dig into the string need time to adapt.

Sorry?

How do you know how I play when road testing a violin? If I didn't play at least to some extent like my clients then I wouldn't succeed in my business.

My last Strad experience was comparing two Golden Period Strads with Veronika Eberle in the Philharmonie in Berlin. She is hardly a light player!

[PhilipKT]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

So...did that turn the concert into a lie?  The 'Almost All Strad' concert?   Did hoards of ticket-buyers demand refunds?

Well, most of the people involved in that concert are dead, so I guess they kept their secret. The album cover shows everyone holding their instruments, I should look it up to see if the gentleman in question at least used the Strad for the photo, haha.

[martin swan]

23 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Martin I’m assuming that was directed at me. I’ve only played one Strad, if I recall correctly, dates from 1693.

im not suggesting it didn’t sound good, I’m saying that I was overplaying. Even though I always start an unknown instrument with a minimum of energy, this still responded like a race car.

it is neither a reflection on me nor the cello, just shows the difference between a Strad and a non-Strad.

No it was aimed at Eugen Modri, who has played on one Strad but presumes to tell me what they are like to play ...

 

[PhilipKT]

6 minutes ago, Rue said:

Disrespectful? Inappropriate? Really?  Quite the opposite.  However, your speculations on my speculations are definitely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Keep it up, and I'll throw in the 'utterly'...

Yes. 

And what on earth does that have to do with the quality of a violin he's been loaned? 

 I know my playing...I don't know yours.  Why should I place weight on your opinions?  Can't have it both ways! 

VdA is willing to lend you her alligators!

[David Burgess]

33 minutes ago, Eugen Modri said:

Do you have any evidence besides your disrespectful speculations ? He is a dedicated, talented, wonderful young man who worked incredibly hard and for long years. Had the courage to test his metal against similar others. Your speculations are utterly inappropriate.

I am not seeing anything disrespectful about Rue's comments on the player. The quality of the violin is mostly what has come into question here.

[David Burgess]

23 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

 Continuing the race car analogy, how many people Buy a Lamborghini and wrap it around a tree the first day? 

None that I know of. It tends to be more of a problem with the higher horsepower versions of the Mustangs, Dodges, and Corvettes (which put out more power than what is available from a Lamborghini)

But a Lamborghini might get you more babes, if you are into gold-diggers who pretend that they like you, get you to sign a will leaving them all of your assets, and then kill you.

[Eugen Modri]

29 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Sorry?

How do you know how I play when road testing a violin? If I didn't play at least to some extent like my clients then I wouldn't succeed in my business.

My last Strad experience was comparing two Golden Period Strads with Veronika Eberle in the Philharmonie in Berlin. She is hardly a light player!

There is no need to be sorry. I know how you play because I heard you.And so did others. World (much ) smaller than you think. And I  hope you have a better clientele than the ones who play "to some extent" like you.

I really appreciate your knowledge and the way you impart it in other fields. You are very intelligent and informed. However, your violin playing is by classical standard, simply non-existent.  It may inform your business activities but your violin tone opinions hold zero water with me and from what I recently read with others, too.

You have no concept of tone production on violin, in other words what you have to do to produce good tone, practically.

[Eugen Modri]

56 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I am not seeing anything disrespectful about Rue's comments on the player. The quality of the violin is mostly what has come into question here.

Anything wrong with the quality of the violin ?

[David Burgess]

13 minutes ago, Eugen Modri said:

Anything wrong with the quality of the violin ?

Did you notice anything, either from listening, or from the player's comments?

As much as I'd like to hump on rare and expensive violins, this hasn't always worked out. How far along are you on that learning path?

[martin swan]

14 minutes ago, Eugen Modri said:

There is no need to be sorry. I know how you play because I heard you.And so did others. World (much ) smaller than you think. And I  hope you have a better clientele than the ones who play "to some extent" like you.

I really appreciate your knowledge and the way you impart it in other fields. You are very intelligent and informed. However, your violin playing is by classical standard, simply non-existent.  It may inform your business activities but your violin tone opinions hold zero water with me and from what I recently read with others, too.

You have no concept of tone production on violin, in other words what you have to do to produce good tone, practically.

You sound like Carl Stross.

As I've said a thousand times, what I do is about my ability to hear, not my ability to play. This is a fundamental misunderstanding on your part.

I am not a classical violinist, and not even a very accomplished violinist of any sort, but for some reason my clients always treat me with respect and deference. These clients include concertmasters and soloists, people who I'm sure are your equals. Perhaps they understand something you don't or perhaps they are all fools - which is more likely? My own sense is that they respect musicality rather than playing ability - they don't expect playing ability from a dealer since that's what they do.

I find your rhetoric quite unpleasant and mildly creepy - you are a virtuoso of the back-handed compliment. 

 

 

[PhilipKT]

1 hour ago, Eugen Modri said:

There is no need to be sorry. I know how you play because I heard you.And so did others. World (much ) smaller than you think. And I  hope you have a better clientele than the ones who play "to some extent" like you.

I really appreciate your knowledge and the way you impart it in other fields. You are very intelligent and informed. However, your violin playing is by classical standard, simply non-existent.  It may inform your business activities but your violin tone opinions hold zero water with me and from what I recently read with others, too.

You have no concept of tone production on violin, in other words what you have to do to produce good tone, practically.

Eugene, this is disrespectful and uncalled for. Your words are insulting and accomplish nothing. Best “Sei Ruh” or Mr Holmes will descend with stern words.

[martin swan]

7 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Eugene, this is disrespectful and uncalled for. Your words are insulting and accomplish nothing. Best “Sei Ruh” or Mr Holmes will descend with stern words.

PhilipKT it's kind of you to contribute, but really it's water off a duck's back.

It's a fatuous argument that regularly gets trotted out here on Maestronet. I don't suppose anyone takes it very seriously - if they do, they should really visit Christophe Landon's Facebook page and watch him playing the cello for his chickens. The inevitable conclusion would be that this guy has no hope of understanding the requirements of his clients, and couldn't possibly command respect as a dealer amongst the classical fraternity.

 

[Carl Stross]

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

You sound like Carl Stross.

I have no interest in your playing and I'd appreciate being kept out of this. 

[martin swan]

1 hour ago, Carl Stross said:

I have no interest in your playing

Glad to hear it - me neither ...

[Carl Stross]

21 hours ago, Rue said:

That was a great talk! 

But I dunno...

1. if it's that difficult to play, why bother? Making excuses for it, and romanticizing it, just because it's a Strad seems silly. Maybe it's at the end of it's life and needs to be put out to pasture? A nice glass case in a nice museum?

Seems to be a lot of parallels between this Strad and Ray Chen's $69er.

2.In each case, the skill of the player is the main factor in getting the "best" sound out the instrument - and they have to fight to do so.

I'd be pretty disappointed if I was a talented player and was lent a prestige instrument - that I had to battle with to play.

1. Well, that's what the talk was about.    He feels he gets out of it more than he puts in and in the end it's not us placing our careers on the line week after week, often in pretty tough conditions. 

2. Strads ( and some DG's ) have an intrinsic sound i.e. would make one sound real "good" as long as one is not in the way. For most purposes that's "good" enough. 

[martin swan]

i fear that many here may not understand how players end up with Strads ...

Some get to exercise some control - there are foundations who will buy a particular instrument for a particular player - but others are simply offered a violin which they can't necessarily refuse.

Whether or not some Strads take 2 years to learn to play, I think I would rather be the player who gets one that is immediately great. Then I could focus on more important things.

Just because something's a challenge doesn't mean there's a virtue in meeting that challenge.