Rue Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Ray Chen pits his Strad directly against his recently purchased $69 violin! (Same room, same bow, same bits of music). You can clearly hear the difference, see the difference (watch facial expressions!), and appreciate how valuable the skill of the player is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctanzio Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Obvious differences in tone and playability aside, I would say the video demonstrates that Ray Chen is worth $10million for his skill. I was astounded to hear that $69 violin sound as good as it did in his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 I know! I think he lucked out and got a 'decent' $69 violin. I have a $50 violin I bought for entertainment value (about 8 years ago)...it's unplayable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sospiri Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 He gets better at playing the cheapo each time. To make the test more conclusive he should spend a few hundred hours playing it so we can make a better judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 LOL...you're so funny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, Rue said: I know! I think he lucked out and got a 'decent' $69 violin. I have a $50 violin I bought for entertainment value (about 8 years ago)...it's unplayable... Those of us who have extensively fished those waters know that tonally good ones get made, one just has to find them. It's more likely to be obvious if a "premium" set up is done. IMHO, modern process engineering, quality control, and intentional scrapping of the worst examples hasn't hurt any. I have yet to see a Chinese violin with a "beaver-chewed" interior, or even visible cutter chatter-marks, both common in low-grade antique Markies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sospiri Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, Rue said: LOL...you're so funny... Who? Me? I’m serious. Enquiring minds need to know. 16 minutes ago, Violadamore said: Those of us who have extensively fished those waters know that tonally good ones get made, one just has to find them. It's more likely to be obvious if a "premium" set up is done. IMHO, modern process engineering, quality control, and intentional scrapping of the worst examples hasn't hurt any. I have yet to see a Chinese violin with a "beaver-chewed" interior, or even visible cutter chatter-marks, both common in low-grade antique Markies. Agreed. But I hope there is still going to be a market for the Artisan maker in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, sospiri said: Who? Me? I’m serious. Enquiring minds need to know.... I don't think Ray needs to put in another several hundred hours playing a $69 violin. He's made his point - that a well-made violin both sounds better and is easier to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, sospiri said: Who? Me? I’m serious. Enquiring minds need to know. Agreed. But I hope there is still going to be a market for the Artisan maker in the future. Oh, in terms of violin history, there always has been, and always will be, no question there. The people who buy trade fiddles are a mostly separate market from the people who are likely to buy bespoke or "fine antique". It's really not like one steals customers from the other. Most dealers sell both, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 I don't care who is playing it, that $69 violin has inherently awful tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, GeorgeH said: I don't care who is playing it, that $69 violin has inherently awful tone. Compared to other $69 violins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deans Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 54 minutes ago, sospiri said: But I hope there is still going to be a market for the Artisan maker in the future. These types of comparisons have been going on forever. Certainly in my time of playing. And in that time the number of Artisan makers seems to have increased drastically, as have their prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 54 minutes ago, Rue said: Compared to other $69 violins? No. I don't think that price and tone are correlated. That violin is awful at any price, even though there are worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 It's nice to see that Ray Chen has come up with ways of having fun, despite the dearth of highly-paid soloist gigs right now. He seems to have a wonderful sense of humor... doesn't need to put on a stuffed shirt act to have credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delabo Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 So would the top be made of plywood at this level ? It sort of sounds that way, a bit thin and muffled. The Strad sounds thicker, as if it has been through a chorus pedal with the fx just slightly turned up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzupe Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Ray Chen is one, if not the, most underrated players there is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Delabo said: So would the top be made of plywood at this level ? It sort of sounds that way, a bit thin and muffled. The Strad sounds thicker, as if it has been through a chorus pedal with the fx just slightly turned up. No, and I believe that was touched on in the earlier Ray Chen video thread. IMHO, plywood on a violin or a viola is strictly VSO territory. OK, the earlier thread got flushed (let's not provoke that again), but here's the video: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellopera Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 6 hours ago, ctanzio said: Obvious differences in tone and playability aside, I would say the video demonstrates that Ray Chen is worth $10million for his skill. I was astounded to hear that $69 violin sound as good as it did in his hands. Conclusion? Don’t get a better instrument, get a better violinist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Kasprzyk Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Ray Chen should have put good strings on the $69 violin and maybe its sound post should be moved farther away from the bridge. A few simple things like that could double or even triple its value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Ledges Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 8 hours ago, sospiri said: Who? Me? I’m serious. Enquiring minds need to know. Agreed. But I hope there is still going to be a market for the Artisan maker in the future. Titanium, carbon fiber and as yet undiscovered exotic alloys! Seriously, I wonder the same thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted June 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 47 minutes ago, Marty Kasprzyk said: Ray Chen should have put good strings on the $69 violin and maybe its sound post should be moved farther away from the bridge. A few simple things like that could double or even triple its value. Sure...but (here's the but)... Why bother? 1. Violin = $69 2. Good strings = $100 3. Move soundpost = $51 Total: $220 But...no one would pay $220 for a $69 violin. No matter how good upgrades make it sound, it would still be cheaply built... If a buyer had $220 to spend, they would buy a $220 violin (irrespective of it also needing new strings, etc. to sound better). Unless you meant it's value as a tool, versus a dollar value? 5 hours ago, Violadamore said: No, and I believe that was touched on in the earlier Ray Chen video thread. IMHO, plywood on a violin or a viola is strictly VSO territory. OK, the earlier thread got flushed (let's not provoke that again), but here's the video: ...and thus I couldn't link to it. The discussion on page 1 was okay though! Jeffrey could have left that in place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Kasprzyk Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 7 hours ago, David Burgess said: It's nice to see that Ray Chen has come up with ways of having fun, despite the dearth of highly-paid soloist gigs right now. He seems to have a wonderful sense of humor... doesn't need to put on a stuffed shirt act to have credibility. We'll see. I'll ask him to play one of my violins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Rue said: Sure...but (here's the but)... Why bother? 1. Violin = $69 2. Good strings = $100 3. Move soundpost = $51 Total: $220 But...no one would pay $220 for a $69 violin. No matter how good upgrades make it sound, it would still be cheaply built... If a buyer had $220 to spend, they would buy a $220 violin (irrespective of it also needing new strings, etc. to sound better). Unless you meant it's value as a tool, versus a dollar value? Value of an upgraded cheap violin as a tool might well exceed Marty's probably tongue-in-cheek estimates. You remember the "Sinostrad" that we've discussed? I got it for around $50 (many years ago, now), then, when it seemed advisable, I put effort and money into it for professional strings, bridge, Wittner pegs, new fittings, and also cut a new soundpost from the vintage stock I have on hand. The result is an "advanced" student violin it would cost me at least $2k to replace off-the-shelf from a dealer, performance-wise. It's now a backup to my professional stable that's mostly immune to the climate extremes around here, sounds and plays very well, and won't be for sale, so what someone with provenance issues might offer for it is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said: A few simple things like that could double or even triple its value. I would guess that having the well-documented Ray Chen provenance would 10x its value without doing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twcellist Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 We all know that a $69 violin is going to sound and play like crap so this was just more a comical video if anything. What would have been more meaningful is compare modern professional grade against the Strad, but then I’m guessing nobody wants to hear that modern instrument could be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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