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Bronte178

Bellegeuele co violin

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Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with my violin and provide any information regarding it.
 
The label states 
Bellegeuele and co musical instruments manufacturers 
157 regent Street corner of break flat  
London
 
The stamp I can't read ? Maybe Joiss? Jais? Gbis? 
It also has a neck graft 
 
Any information would be greatly appreciated
 
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Kindest regards 
 

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Edited by Bronte178
Added info

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3 hours ago, matesic said:

Isn't it Regent Street, corner of Beak street? Dates the label to after 1825

Yes I think it is! Sorry I was going off a friend when they wrote down threadneedle! Thank you :)

 

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Nobody seems to have anything to say about this so I'll give it a bump. I've not heard of Bellegueule & Co but the label resembles those of other London music retailers of the early 1800's, e.g. Button & Whitaker, who outsourced most of their wares to local craftsmen but claimed to make them themselves. Regent Street was a grand new street built through central London by George IV so this must have been quite a prestigious address. No 154 (as I think it reads) is indeed on the corner with Beak Street and is now the premises of a gentlemen's outfitters. Who actually could have made this violin is beyond my ken but the Furbers, Fendts and Richard Tobin were active around this time. I'm doing my best to turn the stamp underneath the button into "Tobin"...

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Thank you so much for your reply!! I was just looking at Richard Tobin and he makes violin that are on the smaller side, I just had a measure and my violin has the exact measurements of his petite violin. When I first got it I thought it was 7/8 but it was just a small full size :)

I can get the t bin (the O could be a b it has a line but isn't dark) 

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1 hour ago, matesic said:

I'm doing my best to turn the stamp underneath the button into "Tobin"...

Hmm I think the third letter is an "i" so that would rule out Tobin.

I have tried comparing late 18th script of the time and the first letter could be a "T" or equally be an "F" or "H"  "G"  "J" "K"  etc.

 

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It looks close though, especially when blown up. I'm 80% convinced it's a T, with only F as a serious alternative (definitely not Furber or Fendt though!). I won't paste his images here, but there's one on Steffen Nowak's site that you could compare for shape and dimensions. http://nowakviolins.co.uk/index.html. Unfortunately the only image I can find showing a brand is here https://www.stamellstring.com/richard-tobin-violin.html where he's in Dublin using Roman-style capitals!

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12 hours ago, matesic said:

It looks close though, especially when blown up. I'm 80% convinced it's a T, with only F as a serious alternative (definitely not Furber or Fendt though!). I won't paste his images here, but there's one on Steffen Nowak's site that you could compare for shape and dimensions. http://nowakviolins.co.uk/index.html. Unfortunately the only image I can find showing a brand is here https://www.stamellstring.com/richard-tobin-violin.html where he's in Dublin using Roman-style capitals

Thank you!!

Tobin violin back 350mm string length 327mm and stop length 192mm 

My violin back length 353mm (measuring from edge to edge, if it's purfling to edge it's 350mm) string length 330mm and stop length 194mm 

It does look pretty close! And the scroll looks pretty much the same 

Edited by Bronte178
Wrong number

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12 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Richard Tobin was considered to be one of the best scroll carvers ever working in Britain. Does this look like one of the best scrolls you have ever seen?

It has a nice scroll? (I haven't been around alot of violins so hard to say. It's very delicate. Here are some more photos of the scroll. It looks a bit wonky I'm just bad at taking photos 

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I've no eye for a scroll but also against Tobin would be the absence of locating pins in the back. Where are the experts when you need them?

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1 hour ago, matesic said:

I've no eye for a scroll but also against Tobin would be the absence of locating pins in the back. Where are the experts when you need them?

Could it have been removed when it the scroll was crafted ? I know ha ha ha it's so hard! 

Thank you for all your help! I really appreciate it

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2 hours ago, Bronte178 said:

Could it have been removed when it the scroll was crafted ? I know ha ha ha it's so hard! 

I can't see any reason why the bottom pin should have been removed. The two Richard Tobin violins illustrated in The British Violin both have locating pins at the top and bottom ends of the 2-piece back. Steffen Nowak's shows the same for a 1-piece back but the Irish one owned by Stamell Strings doesn't. I see what looks like a pin hole above the third letter of the brand on your violin but apparently no pin. Another clue you might look for - Plowright says "the lower ribs are joined and the join often has a piece of purfling inserted". I really can't say any more but I'm glad to have helped a bit.

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6 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

It has nothing to do with Tobin. You’re just trying to see what you want to see in an illegible brand, which is half missing.

I don't really mind who made it, I have no intention of selling the violin : ) but would be nice to know a bit of history. (Which I have ) I mean a name would be nice even  if the person who made it only made a couple of violins as a beginner. But I might not ever find out who made it :) Just thought to post here as I couldn't find anything and I'm not expert with violins : ) yes it is quite impossible to read which is a shame, but thank you for your help I really appreciate it : ) 

But even by posting there could be another person with the same label and that would be pretty cool to find :)

Edited by Bronte178
Adding more

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7 hours ago, matesic said:

I can't see any reason why the bottom pin should have been removed. The two Richard Tobin violins illustrated in The British Violin both have locating pins at the top and bottom ends of the 2-piece back. Steffen Nowak's shows the same for a 1-piece back but the Irish one owned by Stamell Strings doesn't. I see what looks like a pin hole above the third letter of the brand on your violin but apparently no pin. Another clue you might look for - Plowright says "the lower ribs are joined and the join often has a piece of purfling inserted". I really can't say any more but I'm glad to have helped a bit.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate it : ) I have had some fun over the last days trying to figure it out : )  thank you for all your help and responses :)

Edited by Bronte178

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