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jandepora

Could we talk about instruments represents in historical pictures?

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On 6/11/2020 at 2:05 PM, MANFIO said:

Guido Reni, a musician himself (a violinist, if I am not wrong), painted a very realistic violin with his Santa Cecilia. Even so, the violin was being played in a very unrealistic way...

St Cecilia

What evidence do you have that this is an unrealistic way to play a violin ca 1600 in Rome? 

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On 6/11/2020 at 2:19 PM, MANFIO said:

The details we see in a painted violin will not be noticed by 99,9% of the viewers,  now and in the past.

Even professional musicians, even soloists,  that pass 8 hours a day with a violin in their hands will not have the trained eye to "see" the details a luthier can spot. 

Do you think the cardinal who commissioned the work wouldn't have noticed the how the violin was depicted (form and playing posture)? What about the cardinal who purchased the painting afterwards? 

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I would think it depends on the cardinal.  Some would care, and scrutinize every detail in the painting.

Others wouldn't give a rat's derriere about the details.  They might only be concerned with owning the painting and the prestige that comes with it.

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Careful!  Let's not suck the joy out of pure speculation!

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he he he.... for sure Rue!

Here is a photo of a cellist I took recently when i was in Vienna (Kunsthistorisches Museum). I was looking at the neck angle joint in particular - which appears to show a slight neck angle with the notch just clearing the sound board. Similar to some violin / viola images in the Shapes of the Baroque" catalogue by Monical. _DSF6121.jpeg.58b30d5a3d3e72e7f51c86dee7759205.jpeg_DSF6120.jpeg.48f54bc6f386f9d453f14760bf6b98fa.jpeg_DSF6120.jpeg.48f54bc6f386f9d453f14760bf6b98fa.jpeg

Quote

 

 

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I am not a scholar and am not able to back this up, but I recall from an art history class that in the Renaissance and into the baroque, paintings were often suffused with symbolism, allusion, and allegory. Its not unreasonable to surmise that something in a  work of art that may be peculiar to us, such as a "strangely" positioned bridge, for example, might be representative of a moral or idea that escapes today's audiences. 

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Do we have evidence that the violin was played that way?

Another violinists by Guido Reni: FEC_000605_CH00252.jpg

An angel with a violin

And the first violin in a painting is that one by Gaudenzio, in his work "Madonna delle Arancie" in Saronno, Northern Italy. La_Madonna_degli_aranci.jpg

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 One thing I remember from my art history class is that paintings of religious subjects we are highly stylized, although often, the people who commissioned painting would have their own faces painted as, for instance the virgin and Joseph. So those faces would be highly realistic, but the angels and other such creatures would be up to the whim of the painter. 

The Ceruti painting Obviously of a real person(I wonder if he is playing a Ceruti haha) depicts the face, certainly as realistic as is desired. The cello, too, is Realistically painted: The bow hold and the right hand are clear and accurate, though the cello itself is the subject of less attention than the face and the clothing. The Boccherini and the Cervetto, Because they are paintings of internationally famous musicians, can be expected to be far more detailed.

But Angels are left up to the whim of the painter. It is unwise to look for any kind of accuracy in such a work.

Edited by PhilipKT

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22 hours ago, jandepora said:

 

This feature in the pegbox appear in all the instruments of this time and pictorial school (XVI c.)... maybe a characteristic of Brescia instruments?. But I find rarely in the examples of original surviving instruments.

http://collections.nmmusd.org/Violins/BrescianSchool/3363/BrescianViolin3363.html

3363BresciaviolinscrollfrontLG.jpg.f85a3aadfc6a34bc3ec9c0e567fa9a3b.jpgJan_lievens-the_violin_player.thumb.Jpg.c1e77839eaf7971e4a0fb32b40910325.JpgGerard_van_honthorst_gerrit_van_honthorst_-a_young_woman_playing_a_viola_da_gamba.thumb.Jpg.85de1a6cf34ca103379429668265f768.Jpg

 

MmmmmmmmmmmmGamba......

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Just saw this painting for bid on invaluable. It’s the right side of a diptych, from ~1840, but looks considerably older than that to me. Anyway, the detail isn’t perfect, but it’s good enough that I thought it to be worth sharing here.

A38A8661-1291-491A-892A-909E3A1D3E03.png

706082AE-389B-4D9F-BA4E-D4A0B174EFF8.png

Edited by PhilipKT

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