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Rachell66

Another violin identification (Markneukirchen?) please

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Hi everybody, 

I have another violin here. Does anyone have any information on this one? I don't know anything about it

What decade? 

Where is it from? 

It has a fake strad1736 label

To me it might be another Markneukirchen, but I will let the experts decide. 

Mat vs shiny? 

The violin has nice pretty colours, looks sprayed.. The bouts are bumpy on the stripes

The f-holes, what would they look like to you? Amati copy or strad, or other? 

Who in their right mind scratches up an instrument like that?? I just don't get it. 

Did you ever strip the violin and repainted or reapplied varnish? Any information would be appreciated. 

I bought it from someone in Germany 

 

Thanks, as always, you are much appreciated, 

Rachel 

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IMG_20200528_185652.jpg

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Quote

 

Who in their right mind scratches up an instrument like that?? I just don't get it. 

Did you ever strip the violin and repainted or reapplied varnish? Any information would be appreciated. 

 

Some of those scratches are just due to rough handling.  It was likely a school instrument - and students really don't care to look after their stuff.  Ask me how I know...<_<

Stripping is a big no-no.  A restorer will touch up a varnish, or french polish it (now frowned upon, but don't know if it matters with the low-end instruments).  I don't know if there's ever a situation where stripping is warranted, unless a valuable instrument was painted (vandalism! :ph34r:) and a restorer is attempting to strip the paint to reveal the underlying varnish.  So that's still not a full stripping procedure.

Attitudes towards 'refinishing' or 'refurbishing' of 'old' stuff has shifted over the last 30 years.  You will find instruments that have been refinished, in order to make them prettier or 'like-new'.  Again, if it's a low-end instrument, not a huge loss, but on a more valuable instrument you can destroy the value of it.  It will still be playable, but will have lost most of it's market value.

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OK good to 

4 minutes ago, Rue said:

Some of those scratches are just due to rough handling.  It was likely a school instrument - and students really don't care to look after their stuff.  Ask me how I know...<_<

Stripping is a big no-no.  A restorer will touch up a varnish, or french polish it (now frowned upon, but don't know if it matters with the low-end instruments).  I don't know if there's ever a situation where stripping is warranted, unless a valuable instrument was painted (vandalism! :ph34r:) and a restorer is attempting to strip the paint to reveal the underlying varnish.  So that's still not a full stripping procedure.

Attitudes towards 'refinishing' or 'refurbishing' of 'old' stuff has shifted over the last 30 years.  You will find instruments that have been refinished, in order to make them prettier or 'like-new'.  Again, if it's a low-end instrument, not a huge loss, but on a more valuable instrument you can destroy the value of it.  It will still be playable, but will have lost most of it's market value.

Good, OK, still how do you do touch ups? 

Do you know what this violin is, is it a Strad model cut? When and where from? 

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Just now, Rachell66 said:

OK good to 

Good, OK, still how do you do touch ups? 

Do you know what this violin is, is it a Strad model cut? When from? 

Touch-ups require quite a bit of know-how, especially for high-end instruments. Think museum restorer levels, art history background, art background, lots of practice to do it right - need to know the different varnishes used (oil, not oil, etc.), how to mix paints, etc..  I don't have that level know-how, lol.  Although - I did a really good job 'fixing' the scratches on the wood trim of our sofa! :)

I'll leave the rest of the answers to those who know...I'd just be guessing...

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BTW...one thing you can do (well, one of many things you can do), to experiment, is to buy a cheap violin 'kit' in the white, and see how all the parts fit together, etc.  Keep in mind if you look at what is available, that not all kits are created equal.  Some are more complicated, some less.

I bought a decent one many years ago, but when I looked at it I realized I couldn't put it together.  I had no specialized tools, not enough woodworking skills, etc.,   But if you have the desire, and maybe a workshop, or access to a workshop, it would be the easiest way to get a feel for it.  

Or...you could buy a cheap violin that's in pieces, and try to piece it together, as an experiment.

...or you could start with something even easier, like a ukulele kit, or a pancake mandolin kit.

However, this whole violin business isn't, for most people, a DIY venture.  If you really want to learn, you'd need to take a course, which are few and far between (literally!) and expensive, and logistically impossible for most of us.  

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59 minutes ago, Rachell66 said:

Hi everybody, 

I have another violin here. Does anyone have any information on this one? I don't know anything about it

What decade? 

Where is it from? 

It has a fake strad1736 label

To me it might be another Markneukirchen, but I will let the experts decide. 

Mat vs shiny? 

The violin has nice pretty colours, looks sprayed.. The bouts are bumpy on the stripes

The f-holes, what would they look like to you? Amati copy or strad, or other? 

Who in their right mind scratches up an instrument like that?? I just don't get it. 

Did you ever strip the violin and repainted or reapplied varnish? Any information would be appreciated. 

I bought it from someone in Germany 

 

Thanks, as always, you are much appreciated, 

Rachel 

IMG_20200528_185617.jpg

IMG_20200528_184539.jpg

IMG_20200528_185428.jpg

IMG_20200528_185335.jpg

IMG_20200528_190404.jpg

IMG_20200528_190246.jpg

IMG_20200528_190113.jpg

IMG_20200528_190025.jpg

IMG_20200528_185929.jpg

IMG_20200528_185900.jpg

IMG_20200528_185652.jpg

Cheap and nasty Dutzendarbeit from the Markneukirchen/Schönbach area, pre-WWI

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Just now, jacobsaunders said:

Cheap and nasty Dutzendarbeit from the Markneukirchen/Schönbach area, pre-WWI

OK sure, what are cheap and nasty factors? 

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1 minute ago, jacobsaunders said:

open you're  eyes

Hey, I just started playing the violin 2 years ago, just got into getting to know the violins literally couple of months at best, not learning on an ongoing basis. 

But I want to know what is cheap, the factors, otherwise I can't learn. 

What I can see is the varnish all scratched, it looks sprayed. Other than that I need help.. 

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9 minutes ago, Rachell66 said:

OK sure, what are cheap and nasty factors? 

One for sure is the thickness. Very thick, and probably weighs a ton, which will kill sound. The varnish  looks to be a nasty, chippy sprayed finish, that would be almost impossible to retouch.

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By cheap Jacob means that it was constructed of less expensive tone woods, less skilled labour, not expensive (ever) to begin with.  It was one of the least expensive "mass produced"models you could buy.  

Probably needs repair, etc.  Probably not worth it.

Don't focus on the varnish, that varnishing style was very popular at one point in time.  So was the sunburst - a style still popular with guitarists...

And yes...at some point (someone give me a year!) varnish finishes begain to be sprayed on, but I think this predates the sprayed varnish finish. Right guys?

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Just now, Rachell66 said:

I paid a coffee and a dollar for it lol

Sounds about right.

If it actually is intact, and sounds okay, then you should use it.  Have one of the kids play it!

If it's really not worth putting any time, effort or money into it, then you could use it to experiment on - with the understanding that it becomes firewood at the end of your experiments...

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I understand that that Sunburst type of varnish was indeed very popular at one time, but I’ve never seen an example that didn’t look horrible. Can someone share an example that looks nice?

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3 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I understand that that Sunburst type of varnish was indeed very popular at one time, but I’ve never seen an example that didn’t look horrible. Can someone share an example that looks nice?

No.

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1 minute ago, Rue said:

No.

That made me laugh.

Plus, it is a true delight to get a reply that is brief, to the point, and utterly unassailable.

Hats off!

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14 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

That made me laugh.

Plus, it is a true delight to get a reply that is brief, to the point, and utterly unassailable.

Hats off!

Here's one 

burnviolin.jpg

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These things were made in huge numbers and unfortunately lots of them are still around. They came in many grades but most of them were at the lower end of things, like this one. You may be able to learn something from working on one, but there are limits because of the crude construction.as for the Stradivarius label, as I said somewhere else, the emphasis should be on the various part. If you want to learn to work on instruments you'll learn more by working on things that are even slightly better. If you want an instrument to play, find a decent basic violin that has been set up correctly and it'll take you a lot farther. You want something that you can outgrow for the right reasons, not the wrong ones.

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2 hours ago, stringcheese said:

These things were made in huge numbers and unfortunately lots of them are still around. They came in many grades but most of them were at the lower end of things, like this one. You may be able to learn something from working on one, but there are limits because of the crude construction.as for the Stradivarius label, as I said somewhere else, the emphasis should be on the various part. If you want to learn to work on instruments you'll learn more by working on things that are even slightly better. If you want an instrument to play, find a decent basic violin that has been set up correctly and it'll take you a lot farther. You want something that you can outgrow for the right reasons, not the wrong ones.

I'm sure this violin would be fine for practicing basic repair techniques. Crack repair, open seams, sound post fitting, etc.

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3 hours ago, Rachell66 said:

I paid a coffee and a dollar for it lol

Then you paid a dollar too much ...

Perhaps do the learning and then start doing the buying?

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7 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Then you paid a dollar too much ...

Perhaps do the learning and then start doing the buying?

The coffee and dollar was a cheap learning experience, and for that it was probably a bargain. Better blowing a few dollars on crap now than many dollars on crap down the line.

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3 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I understand that that Sunburst type of varnish was indeed very popular at one time, but I’ve never seen an example that didn’t look horrible. Can someone share an example that looks nice?

Not on a fiddle, but it looks great on the right guitar:

IMG_1420.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Three13 said:

Not on a fiddle, but it looks great on the right guitar:

IMG_1420.jpg

Oh absolutely. We have, in the closet, a 1917 Gibson with just this kind of varnish.

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