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Disinfect instruments

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Hello. I'm going back to the workshop and would like to know which are your strategies to disifect violins once they have been tested by clients. Some musician try instruments and once they have tested  them how do you treat them (the instruments of course)? Of course alcoholic solutions is not an option. Is there any safe procedure? Just let them in standby for fourteen days? Maybe nothing is needed? I look forward your opinions. Thanks in advance.

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To be safe, putting them away for 72 hours should be more than enough.  That would be the easiest way, and also the least damaging to the instruments.

I'd also make sure the client uses hand sanitizer (or washes [which is better], if you have a sink easily accessible) as soon as they come in the shop.  You could also ask them to put a cloth over the chinrest as an added precaution.  If they don't have one with them, you can supply some (bandanas would work, if they're soft and washed).  Those cloths can be collected in a bin and then laundered and reused.  I think that would be a totally understandable, and, from my point of view, a thoughtful item for the vendor to supply.  People will be more comfortable if they know the vendor is taking this seriously.

I'd also be doing a lot of sanitizing of door knobs and other 'touchy' surfaces.

You could also insist on face masks.  

I'd also post any covid-19 'rules' clearly on the website, and on the door before people come in the shop, so there are no 'surprises' to upset anyone.  Don't want another Nathan altercation happening...

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I started a topic the other day about stabilized aqueous ozone. You can buy a portable mister that mixes ozone gas in the regular tap water. It's effective on all hard surfaces on all bacteria and viruses, but I guess I can see why you might not want to spray your violins down all the time. If you did though, it is entirely nontoxic: bonus.

Viola d'Amore did post something from a journal about Sao possibly being less effective on wood surfaces. Unfortunately cow manure wasn't completely neutralized when on a wood surface. It's good though, even if you just consider it as a cleaner. I removed marker "art" from an oil painting with SAO, so I have to say it might be interesting to see what it can do for you. If you felt like it, you could probably remove patina (read: old crud) from violins without risk to varnish. When my SAO sprayer comes I'll definitely test it.

I think I heard on CNN or somewhere that it's unlikely to transmit "the rona" via surfaces....best not to chance it though. I hope there is a good and safe solution here, other than rotating violins out for 72 hours. But Rue is totally right, obviously you could do that.

 

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I have UV lights, but I am thinking of laying them out on my roof patio in the morning sun until it gets too hot for rental fiddles. A little natural UV and a breeze certainly can't hurt.

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...probably not...

And for sure any woodworms won't appreciate it...:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, duane88 said:

I have UV lights, but I am thinking of laying them out on my roof patio in the morning sun until it gets too hot for rental fiddles. A little natural UV and a breeze certainly can't hurt.

UV-C is the effective sanitizer, and no UV-C gets through the atmosphere. Which is good, because it would kill us. Blind us. And so forth. But I see what you mean. Sunlight is good.

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A dilute solution of hydrogen peroxide will work, but it needs to stay in contact for a minute or two. I decomposes into oxygen and water. As Michael said, there is gaining evidence against surface transmission. The problem would be the proximity to the face. Players wearing masks would help.

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I wouldn't put a solution of peroxide on a wooden surface at all, never mind leave it there long enough to disinfect.  Peroxide is also a bleaching agent.

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25 minutes ago, Rue said:

I wouldn't put a solution of peroxide on a wooden surface at all, never mind leave it there long enough to disinfect.  Peroxide is also a bleaching agent.

Dilute hydrogen peroxide (commercial 3%) won't hurt the finish. I use 30% H2O2, alternating with bleach to clean dirty cracks (last resort when necessary), with minimal effect to the finish. a little 3% wiped off after a minute won't hurt. Try it yourself (maybe on a nasty Markneukirchen fiddle)

Another thought is that you may be able to use  (carefully) alcohol wipes on the chinrest, strings and peg heads

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You can mix a bit of vinegar disolved in some water. Vinegar has acetic acid, know for the antibacterial properties. Try in a corner first before wipe it.

Might end with a not very pleasant smell... 

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5 hours ago, Rue said:

To be safe, putting them away for 72 hours should be more than enough.  That would be the easiest way, and also the least damaging to the instruments.

 

That's what I'm doing with my groceries and other recent purchases. Leaving them in the car or the garage for three days (aside from items which need to be kept refrigerated or frozen).

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I am actually less paranoid, than I am worrying that I should be MORE paranoid, so I think being better safe than sorry (in a manner that will do the least harm) is a reasonable approach.  At least until we have more, concrete, facts.

20 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

Dilute hydrogen peroxide (commercial 3%) won't hurt the finish. I use 30% H2O2, alternating with bleach to clean dirty cracks (last resort when necessary), with minimal effect to the finish. a little 3% wiped off after a minute won't hurt. Try it yourself (maybe on a nasty Markneukirchen fiddle)

Another thought is that you may be able to use  (carefully) alcohol wipes on the chinrest, strings and peg heads

 

20 minutes ago, aletrop said:

You can mix a bit of vinegar disolved in some water. Vinegar has acetic acid, know for the antibacterial properties. Try in a corner first before wipe it.

Might end with a not very pleasant smell... 

Okay guys, explain to me why, how putting the instrument away for a couple of day, is less preferable than wiping a wooden instrument down with a disinfectant that might damage it, which is a lot more work AND may smell bad?

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12 minutes ago, Rue said:

Okay guys, explain to me why, how putting the instrument away for a couple of day, is less preferable than wiping a wooden instrument down with a disinfectant that might damage it, which is a lot more work AND may smell bad?

Sure you can put away for some days, and actually might be the best, but if you work on a busy shop leave a few days of might not be an option. 

The smell  its relative. some people like, im personally not a big fan, but will disappear after some time. 

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50 minutes ago, aletrop said:

You can mix a bit of vinegar disolved in some water. Vinegar has acetic acid, know for the antibacterial properties.

Antibacterials are not necessarily effective as antivirals. This is a virus.

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3 hours ago, not telling said:

UV-C is the effective sanitizer, and no UV-C gets through the atmosphere. Which is good, because it would kill us. Blind us. And so forth. But I see what you mean. Sunlight is good.

I know, but sunlight is a wonderful device for sanitizing. Viruses don't care for it and tend to live shorter periods of time when exposed to it.

I was a Nurse in my former profession, so although this is scary in the whole we know what to do to minimize the risks and be safer.

These are rental instruments. They can remain untouched, if needed, until the end of July/beginning of August.

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58 minutes ago, aletrop said:

Sure you can put away for some days, and actually might be the best, but if you work on a busy shop leave a few days of might not be an option. 

The smell  its relative. some people like, im personally not a big fan, but will disappear after some time. 

I am not convinced.

Also...knowing that while the effects of repeated applications of sanitizing agents might not be visible immediately - the cumulative effects might be visible down the road. Imagine waking up one day to find your once nice brown violin is now a horrid splotchy orange?

And...in order for a sanitizing agent to work  it has to be left on a surface for several minutes. A damp wipe-down is pointless. So? Are you going to slather enough disinfectant on the violin to actually kill a virus that may not even be there?

I don't want to buy a violin that's been treated like that.

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

I am actually less paranoid, than I am worrying that I should be MORE paranoid, so I think being better safe than sorry (in a manner that will do the least harm) is a reasonable approach.  At least until we have more, concrete, facts.

 

Okay guys, explain to me why, how putting the instrument away for a couple of day, is less preferable than wiping a wooden instrument down with a disinfectant that might damage it, which is a lot more work AND may smell bad?

Perhaps we should have been more diligent about chin cooties all along!

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40 minutes ago, Rue said:

I am not convinced.

Also...knowing that while the effects of repeated applications of sanitizing agents might not be visible immediately - the cumulative effects might be visible down the road. Imagine waking up one day to find your once nice brown violin is now a horrid splotchy orange?

 

Or your liver, or your immune system. None of these "sanitizing agents" are completely safe for you as a person. Perhaps with occasional use, but not with the frequency that might be required for this situation. Even sunlight will damage your cells with repeated exposure without protection.

 

Also, Aletrop, perhaps in this new situation, we will have to slow our busy shops down a little to make allowances for what will be the new best practices. What we have done in the past may need to be changed.

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8 hours ago, duane88 said:

I know, but sunlight is a wonderful device for sanitizing. Viruses don't care for it and tend to live shorter periods of time when exposed to it.

I was a Nurse in my former profession, so although this is scary in the whole we know what to do to minimize the risks and be safer.

These are rental instruments. They can remain untouched, if needed, until the end of July/beginning of August.

I knew that (about you being a nurse). I apologize for forgetting. 

I guess I have heard that viruses don't like sunlight, after all, we thought the summer would bring back normal etc., (many still think so). but equatorial Brazil is seeing a lot of cases. So it's hard to know what to believe about that. What do you think is going on there?  Is it just the cramped conditions of the cities in Brazil?  Is it possible for a virus to be "different" in such a basic quality? I think it's actually really hard to know what to do to be safe. It's all new.

 

 

 

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Soap and water is supposed to be the best thing for hands. I would simply rub the the violin with soapy hands for 20 seconds.

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1 hour ago, Muswell said:

Soap and water is supposed to be the best thing for hands. I would simply rub the the violin with soapy hands for 20 seconds.

...while singing Happy Birthday, twice? Future historians will be astonished by the strange superstitions, spells and incantations that sprang up everywhere.

It's hard to be rational but if I were a customer for a musical instrument in an infection hot-spot I'd postpone for a few weeks. Anywhere else I'd be satisfied by the assurance that it had been wiped and quarantined for three days.

In my book social protection is important but personal protection much less so except insofar as it impacts others. As a healthy, borderline hypertensive 70 y/o I'm statistically far more likely to die from cardiovascular disease this year. Over the last 3 months the "excess" deaths in the UK peaked at around 65% of the "normal" rate which I estimate is roughly equivalent to the effect of a pack of cigarettes every week for a decade (maybe someone should fact-check me on that).

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