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Unknown Violin maybe German


Rachell66

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

... No offense intended, but I'm supposing that I've seen and repaired much more of this kind than Rue.-_-

...

I know about beetles.

I leave the repairing of worm-chewed violins to the experts who know about such things.

My solution to local woodworm problems is the fire pit...:D

Mind you, around here, most of the wood is chewed up by ants...endless ants...ants on ant highways, ants on anthills, ants in our siding...<_<

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

I know about beetles.

I leave the repairing of worm-chewed violins to the experts who know about such things.

My solution to local woodworm problems is the fire pit...:D

Mind you, around here, most of the wood is chewed up by ants...endless ants...ants on ant highways, ants on anthills, ants in our siding...<_<

Call the pink panther exterminators!

when they leave you will have “deadant deadant...deadant.. deadant deadant deadant deadant deadant.......”

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14 hours ago, Rue said:

Why?  If the larvae are feeding, you'll see sawdust.  If there are no adults around to lay more eggs = which would result in more larvae = which would result in more sawdust...

...then I think you can conclude that the larvae are either dead...or have hatched into adults...which have flown off to visit new violins, cellos and wardrobes...

Now, having said that, if you live in an area where woodworm is prevalent, you could always get a new infestation - but again,  you'd either see the adult beetles, or you'd see little piles of fresh sawdust...

This is the often quoted traditional advice, but I don't think it is too reliable as a guide. You will not see sawdust, although this bore dust is actually small pellets which are excreted by the larvae, when the larvae are active.

The eggs, which are too small to see without magnification, are laid into cracks, end grain, edges, or previously used exit holes. Often, the female will climb into an exit hole, lay the eggs, and then use her body to block the hole as she dies, protecting the eggs inside.

The tiny larvae will hatch after a few days, and begin to burrow into the wood. Depending on the species, these will live for up to five years before pupating. As they munch through the wood, the burrows are back filled with their waste, and the tunnels can be quite tightly packed with pellets. The larvae are very careful not to eat through the surface of the timber, which would expose them to potential predators, but they will eat right up to the surface, leaving a paper thin cap over it.
The burrow remains entirely sealed until the larvae pupate, leave the chrysalis, and finally chew out their exit hole. It is only once the exit hole has been completed that any "dust" can fall out.
Given that the burrows are packed with waste, the shake test will surely dislodge some, but only a small amount will come out from near the exit hole, giving a false sense of security, that only a tiny bit of dust came out, and all worm must be inactive now.

The exit hole is often the only clue as to the presence of worm, but only tell a small part of the problem. Since the larvae live for so long, massive amounts of damage can be caused inside the timber, despite a relatively small number of exit holes.

In instruments this is bad news, because the diameter of the worm burrows, and the thickness of various parts are very similar. A belly, or cello rib for instance, could have a large network of random tunnels, which leave only a few tenths of a mm of untouched wood above and below. Given that an instrument is a structure under a lot of tension, you can see how this is a serious issue, where it would not be for a chest of drawers.

The larvae do not seem too keen to eat varnish or glue. It can often be seen when opening an instrument, that a particular area was heavily eaten, but for some reason they did not want to chew through the glue, and remained confined to that part.
This is not always the case though, and some seem to have no problem getting through this barrier, wreaking havok in multiple places.

When opening instruments, there are usually far more exit holes on the inside, than on the outside, so again, what you can see externally is only the "tip of the iceberg", as Blank Face mentioned.

 

14 hours ago, baroquecello said:

Woodworm Needs a certain % of reative moisture in the Wood. Old Wood, kept inside the house in a dry place, is to dry for woodworm to thrive in. Unless the violin was recently stored in a Damp cellar or something of the sort, it is very unlikely that there are active woodwoms present in the violin. Mosst likely the woodworm Damage is from Long ago, when the violin and the Wood were still relatively Fresh. The holes seem to have darkened quite a bit, so I would suspect them to be old, and I wouldn't worry About it. 

While there is some truth to what you say, regarding moisture and low starch levels in older timbers. If there is nothing else available, they will still go for this. There are different species too, some which target fresher wood, and others which will happily eat much older wood.

I have seen instruments from the 1730s with active worm in recent years. In this case, it was believed to have come from house timbers, which were themselves in excess of three hundred years old. If nothing else, animals/insects are very adaptable, and will make the most of any situation in order to survive, and make it to mating time. This was also an instrument which was in use, albeit not daily.

From what I have seen, particularly with violins, is that the case (usually a pine coffin case) became very heavily infested with worms while stored in a loft, cellar etc. Over time eggs get laid on/in the instrument too, and the damage can become very severe in such situations.

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In similar fashion to rust never sleeps as long as there is ambient humidity...think about it, the wood of our instruments is being eaten/consumed by microscopic and not so microscopic critters from the get go. The best I can do is try to get it to auction before it's totally gone!

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4 hours ago, Rue said:

Which species are you describing?

The most common is Anobium Punctatum. Other species will exhibit much of the same behaviour.

In different parts of the world, other types may be more common than what I'd expect to see here.

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So - this species is the Common Furniture Beetle (AKA Common House Borer)  Anobium punctatum (De Geer)...belonging to the family of beetles known as Ptinidae (this family includes Deathwatch, and Spider Beetles [for those who like the spooky names! :D]).

Adults (of this group of beetles) are generally referred to as wood-boring beetles, the larvae (immature beetles) as 'woodworm'.  They are not a worm. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_furniture_beetle

This wiki info is correct.

This species is found globally, but prefers warmer, damper parts of the globe.  That's why it's more of an issue in England than it would be in the middle of the NA prairies.  Not to mention, we tend not to store items in attics and damp basements, mostly because of climate extremes; our attics are mostly unheated and not used for storage, and we have heated basements that are used as living space.

Larvae and eggs can be killed with extreme heat, extreme cold and with insecticides - none of which bode well for violins...so easiest to keep the violin in an environment the beetles don't like.

Without writing a dissertation on wood boring beetles found in violins, I'd still be looking for sawdust as an indication of an active infestation, and if you live in an area where this beetle is a serious issue, make sure you keep your instrument in a dry, well-aired space, and just keep an eye on things.

Just more info for those who like more info...:)

 

 

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Today's beetle trivia: Woodworm in a pine plank, longitudinal look at the tunnel/pupation chamber. Don't know which species, other than a larger one...confounded because I don't know where the wood originated from...but willing to guess it's a Sawyer of some sort...

You can see how the fecal material, at this point, kinda fills up the hole...

Which is actually fine...on-the-spot wood filler! :)

 

20200530_163559.jpg

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Useful tip on the wood filler. I don't know if this extermination practice would work on violins or cellos,  but I've heard that the insects can be permanently destroyed in violas by dissolving the entire instrument in a barrel of acid.

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